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Calling the showdown bet or raise.
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kpreston
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01-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Post subject: Calling the showdown bet or raise.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 48
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I'm about finished reading Super Systems 2, and there is a point earlier on in the book which I'd like to hear a little more about.
pg 133 "If you average a big profit by calling, you aren't calling enough"
This section assumes you some how make it to the river with a vulnerable hand, and are faced with a bet or raise.
This small section talks about calling pot odds even when you know you're more than likely going to show a losing hand most of the time. They base this due to the fact that the one time you do call with the best hand will turn a profit in the long run. Now, this section seems to be talking specifically about Limit hold'em, but can this point apply to no-limit as well?
What odds are acceptable to call with, what you believe to be, the second best hand? 3:1? 4:1? 5:1? 6:1? never acceptable? What hands, that are vulnerable based on the community cards, would be acceptable? LP? MP? TP? two-pair?
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elitemob
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 116
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[deletes long post] I just realized you were only asking about the showdown bet/raise.
Well, the first thing: the pot odds concept applies to no limit hold 'em as well (especially before the showdown). As a second thing, you cannot know the precise percentage of you loosing against your opponent's hand so you cannot apply the pot odds concept for decision making.
In my opinion it hugely depends on your reads on your opponent. What kind of player is he? tight? loose? aggressive? passive? What hands has he played in the past and how did he bet them? What hand range do you put him on? Of course it hugely depends on how experienced you are in poker as well. And so on ... there are many many variables that will influence your decision and you have to balance them somehow. That's all there is to it, I suppose ... that's the essence of poker itself and no one can give you general advice if you should call with a low pair with 6:1 pot odds without all the other factors. I hope this sheds some light on the question.
If you post a hand history with a specific situation and your reads and impressions about the players involved then we can help you or give you advice 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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This applies to most if not all forms of poker, not just hold'em.
Decide your approximate equity in the spot, and if you have the odds to call, you do so. For example, if you estimate that if you call a river bet on some hand that you'll be winning 25% of the time, you should call if you're getting 4:1 pot odds. With 4:1 pot odds, you only need to win 20% of the time to break even, so you'll turn a profit if your approximation is correct.
The idea behind the line "If you average a big profit by calling, you aren't calling enough" is that if you're making a lot of money on each individual river call, then you need to start calling down in spots where you approximate you have a smaller, but profitable, edge.
Consider this idea: someone who never calls a river bet without the nuts. On average, they'll win a lot of money on each individual call down, but they won't make much money overall since they're not calling down very much. Now consider someone who calls down every single time they have an edge. They might not win as much on each individual call, but overall they'll win more money on river calls because they're getting more value.
Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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