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lytstephe
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03-29-2009, 03:36 AM
Post subject: Calling all-in with QQ??
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 21
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Want to take a poll here.
Not a specific case, but in general micro/low stake NL with no read on opponent, would you call an all-in with QQ against one opponent?
Personally I would definitely fold JJ and call KK.
Comments/Suggestions welcomed. Statistics on winnings/lost from a QQ all in would be great!
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lockpull
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OVERLAND PARK, KS
Posts: 303
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in microstakes...no reads.... no specific situation...all day
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Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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a lot of people are going to tell you "it depends"
fwiw, i use to get it in with QQ a lot and KK, AA, AK are pretty much the only hands i've run into. with the exception of a few spew maniacs
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Yeah I used to auto get it in with QQ in pretty much any situation in 6 max. At 20NL this is bad though and like AFChung said you find yourself frequently vs a range of only QQ KK AA AK and little else.
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Illfavor
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
in microstakes...no reads.... no specific situation...all day
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I would love to see your stats for every time you've stacked off preflop for 90bb+ with QQ. Maybe you know something we don't.
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Ich grolle nicht...
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celtic123
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR
Posts: 708
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YIP
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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I think always stacking off with QQ with no reads becomes less and less of a mistake as we move up in limits, but I'd say it's indefinitely really bad at 50NL and under
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lockpull
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OVERLAND PARK, KS
Posts: 303
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Illfavor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
in microstakes...no reads.... no specific situation...all day
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I would love to see your stats for every time you've stacked off preflop for 90bb+ with QQ. Maybe you know something we don't. |
I do no think I know something you don't but I thought that giving up QQ against microstakes players shoves would lose money in the long run. The poll asked if you would call a shove from someone with QQ. If you do not know anything about the OPP why would you assume he would only do this with KK+,AK. Even if they only shoved the top 4% of hands this is what I came up with:
Hand 0: 48.664% 47.26% 01.40% 208782096 6203094.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 51.336% 49.93% 01.40% 220586148 6203094.00 { QQ }
Where am I off?
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Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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most people dont open shove for 100bbs, and those that do usually have a range thats even tighter than kk+, ak...ie KK+. as stack sizes get smaller, their range widens up a little and it may turn out to be ok to call against someone with only 20bbs simply because shortstackers generally have a much wider open push range.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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this question really tilts me though, stack sizes arent mentioned, and how exactly he pushed all in isnt mentioned either. Did he 4b shove all in, or open push? we are never without information at the table even if its just the first hand and this kind of information is sometimes enough to form at least some idea of what range he has.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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From my experience, I'd happily get it in with QQ at $2NL, at $5NL however unless I'm facing a short stack then it's probably a mistake most of the time. At $10NL I'd consider folding KK against most players (though I haven't played $10NL for over a year so it could have changed).
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Illfavor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
in microstakes...no reads.... no specific situation...all day
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I would love to see your stats for every time you've stacked off preflop for 90bb+ with QQ. Maybe you know something we don't. |
I do no think I know something you don't but I thought that giving up QQ against microstakes players shoves would lose money in the long run. The poll asked if you would call a shove from someone with QQ. If you do not know anything about the OPP why would you assume he would only do this with KK+,AK. Even if they only shoved the top 4% of hands this is what I came up with:
Hand 0: 48.664% 47.26% 01.40% 208782096 6203094.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 51.336% 49.93% 01.40% 220586148 6203094.00 { QQ }
Where am I off? |
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.143% 59.92% 00.22% 172384116 626394.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 39.857% 39.64% 00.22% 114030168 626394.00 { QQ }
fixed
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KeeKoLy
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Illfavor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
in microstakes...no reads.... no specific situation...all day
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I would love to see your stats for every time you've stacked off preflop for 90bb+ with QQ. Maybe you know something we don't. |
I just checked PT database and went through every hand I had QQ from the past 11K hands. I have had QQ 63 times, and 4 times I ended up all in before the flop. Twice I was limp-re-raised all, in both of these cases I snap-called, as the villain had shown he was just a manic. Of these two times I won both as the opponent had KJo once, and 53s once. One time I 3-bet, opponent shoved and I called. I ended up hitting a Q on the river to beat AA (got lucky there).
As I went through those hand histories, I realized there are some seriously bad players at this level, so I don't think you should say to never do it PF, but obviously it is VERY dependent on the opponent. So with that said I didn't answer the poll as you can't say one way or the other for sure, just like any other situation in poker.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Guys, this is an obvious situation where "it depends". Reads/Stats/Villains all come into play. Against one villain it may be correct, while against another it might not be. I don't think it's quite useful to examine a situation like this. For one, we don't even know how we go in the situation in which we are faced with an allin.
Basically, the thread is too general, and no good debate has arisen as of yet, and I wouldn't expect it to.
{locked}
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