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Sprayed
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12-26-2008, 03:58 AM
Post subject: Calling 3bets with pps
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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Question that I should have asked a long time ago. When is it profitable to call a 3bet with a small to medium pp? That is, you raise with 55 from mp and lp 3bets. How would I calculate this to determine when it is profitable to call? Can someone explain the 15:1 rule or point me to a post that does a good job of explaining this?
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ght=10x%20rule
this thread has always done a good job for me when pointing out to others.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Thanks jyms, good thread but it seems to center more towards calling initial raises with pps and scs. From what I can gather, I would need to have 15x the 3bet in my stack and his in order to call his 3bet. Is that correct?
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Correct, I try to aim for like 15x eff. stacks but adjust accordingly to how tight/loose villain is because implied odds change given opponent.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
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completely depends on your opponent and his 3betting tendencies. Against one opponent getting 10-12:1 is enough, against another calling is probably bad even getting 20:1, and 4betting can be a lot better.
The wider the 3-betting range the more you'll just get owned flatting 3bets and constantly snap-folding 85%+ of flops.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
completely depends on your opponent and his 3betting tendencies. Against one opponent getting 10-12:1 is enough, against another calling is probably bad even getting 20:1, and 4betting can be a lot better.
The wider the 3-betting range the more you'll just get owned flatting 3bets and constantly snap-folding 85%+ of flops.
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Sweet. This brings me to my next question, what is a high frequency for 3betting? What % would be looked at as being high?
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
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anything over 12% is high.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
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depends on the stake/level/game but I would think anything over 8% would be up there.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
anything over 12% is high.
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lol, this is WAY high. i agree with spenda that anything over 8 is high. villains 3betting 12%+ should be easy to exploit unless they're very good.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Understand that it's situational. Thanks guys this helps.
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Good info!
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Yea, for the basics I think the 15x is where we need to get started with understanding what we are trying to accomplish. Once we know whether we are talking a 4% 3bet'r or an 8% 3bet'r then we can discuss whether to call, 4bet or fold. Everything said here has been on the money. I think 8% is probably where I would start with calling it high. Really depends on where that guy 3bets from and where he prefers to 3 bet. Some guys 3bet a ton from the blinds vs stealers but 3bet like 4% from the button with only the top % of hands. You will need to play differently against this single opponent obviously.
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