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Call flop, minraise turn.
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zxqv8
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06-06-2008, 07:55 PM
Post subject: Call flop, minraise turn.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 79
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My experience so far at the micros is that this line almost invariably means set, trips, straight or a flush depending on what the board has out. I know that if I let that decide my actions I will be acting results orientedly, so I want to ask how often this actually means what my experience is teaching me it means.
I have been told people will take this line in the mid and high stakes with air, but this is the microlimits, how often are people actually bullshitting me?
I can certainly pitch it if I've missed and just thought I had a spot to double barrel, but when I'm holding TPTK or 2p I really have a hard time just not shoving them in (because they're mostly shortstackers down here).
Help, thoughts, anything?
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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So much depends on PF-play, position, bet size, board texture and villain... if you have some specific HHs you can show, might get some more helpful feedback.
In general, a Turn raise at micro's usually means something. And a minraise is harder to see as a "get the f-ck out of here" bet because it's small... and more likely to be read as a value bet that they think is small enuff that you HAVE to call.
This is in part where it becomes really important to try and define their range thru PF, flop and turn bet-sizing. Two generic examples...
1) You check from BB when everyone but Bu folds... you 1/2 PB he calls... you 1/3-1/2PB turn he min raises... Could be he just thinks your full of sh!t and has improved enuff (picked up TP maybe) or wants to try bluffing the A that just hit ('cause he read somewhere that's good to do...) and thinks you'll drop to the raise...
2) You 4x PFR from MP and get flatted by the Bu. You PSB it on a dry flop and he calls. You 3/4 bet the Tu and he min-raises you. If you only got TPTK, odds are good you're in deepsh!t and this is a value bet...
So I guess that's my long-winded way of saying "depends"...
I'll leave it with one more thought... I've spent a lot of $ over my first couple of 100K hands at micros NOT believing people's bets. Not a lot of sophisticated bluffers at the micros... there's ABC players (who will most likely have what they're representing...) and there are bad players (well, who just suck...) Play accordingly and you'll do fine.
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Robb
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06-08-2008, 12:08 AM
Post subject: Re: Call flop, minraise turn.
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zxqv8
My experience so far at the micros is that this line almost invariably means set, trips, straight or a flush depending on what the board has out. I know that if I let that decide my actions I will be acting results orientedly, so I want to ask how often this actually means what my experience is teaching me it means.
I have been told people will take this line in the mid and high stakes with air, but this is the microlimits, how often are people actually bullshitting me?
I can certainly pitch it if I've missed and just thought I had a spot to double barrel, but when I'm holding TPTK or 2p I really have a hard time just not shoving them in (because they're mostly shortstackers down here).
Help, thoughts, anything?
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The call flop, min-r turn line is annoying. Villain almost always beats AA (two pair, or better). But you're getting better than 2 to 1 even if you made a PSB, and as much as 4 to 1 if you bet half the pot on the turn. With those kind of odds, it's hard to lay it down. It's not too hard to have 20% equity in a hand, even when you're behind.
Here's the plan. Don't call a turn bet if you're going to lay it down to a 1/2 to 2/3's river bet. You need some outs, some kind of redraw that hit or something. Typically, TPTK isn't going to hold up. So those are my requirements. If I don't have real outs to a big outs, and if I can't see myself calling a 2/3's pot river bet without improving, I generally lay it down.
I don't like it. But with only one card to come, it's pure mathematics. Calculate odds, read villain, make the call only if it looks to be +EV.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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BTW, when I find villains who habitually play the min-raise turn line, I often bet 1/3 the pot on the turn as a defensive bet when I'm heads up against them. If he minraises, I'm now getting 5 to 1 pot odds which should be enough for any hand I have, as long as I'm not drawing dead (unpaired cards against a set, etc).
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