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Buy in for the max at Rings?

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thirteen

09-21-2005, 04:03 PM Post subject: Buy in for the max at Rings?

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 235

I'm wondering if people are always buying in at the max for their ring games?

Typically i have not, due mostly to me having a small $50 starting bankroll(that usually hovers between $35-55) and not wanting to buy in at $10 for the .01/.02 games. However since stack size is important in NLHE, here is the strategy I've used.

What has been working well for me is scouting the tables and finding ones where people have bought in for below the max, somewhere around $2-$4. An added benefit is that these types of tables are usually not full tables yet, so you can get the benefits of a shorthanded game.

Then I look for the biggest stack. Typically I'll buy in for the his stack size rounded up to the nearest dollar. For example, big stack has $2.65, so I buy in for $3. I don't want people to be able to bully for all my money, but I'm not yet comfortable with sitting down at a full table with 1/5 of my bankroll.

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drmcboy

09-21-2005, 04:41 PM

#2 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,601

Clearly there is no need to have more chips than the person with the most chips at the table, but someone can always double up, and then you run the risk of not getting the max value out of your hand. Either way you aren't decreasing your risk any with your strat (if no one has more than 3 bucks, it's not like you can lose more than 3, whether you have 4 or 10) - but you are minimizing the profit you can make. What's the difference in losing three(ish) $4 buyins or 1 $10 buy in?

Les_Worm

09-21-2005, 05:06 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

Shoudn't .01-.02 games have a max buy in for $2?

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drmcboy

09-21-2005, 05:08 PM

#4 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,601

yeah I was confused too but never did the micro rings. 10 seemed pretty deep.

PokerPatNEU

09-21-2005, 05:16 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

The "value" (i put it in quotes because i don't really like this strategy) of playing short stacked at no limit is that people are more likely to call your all ins when you have hands that have an edge pre flop or on the flop.

Example: You buy in for 10$ at 25NL (40 big blinds). You pick up 55 on the button and call a 3x BB raise. Three to the flop. Flop is AT5. Pre flop raiser bets 2$, you call. Turn is blank. Guy bets again, you push. Now with deeper stacks the guy with AK/AQ is going to think about this hand, and probably fold. With you buying in short, he knows he is showing this down for 5$ more and thats it...Easy call for him, and you double up.

The disadvantage is along those same lines. Say the hand is exactly the same but this time villain holds AT. If you bought in full stacked, you raise his turn bet to 8$ with your set, and have deeper stacks to put even more money in the pot that he will probably call with top two.

Buying in short can maximize your profit on a hand where you have a big edge because people are more likely to look you up with TPTK or some other weakish holding.

Buying in short can limit your profits on hands where villain have big hands themselves but yours are bigger.

Buying in short can also limit your losses if you pick up a good hand and run into a monster though, so it has that advantage as well.

CrunchyNuts

09-21-2005, 05:49 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 436

Stars has $5 buyin on the 1c/2c, Paradise has $2, where has $10? That sounds like great implied odds to me~

thirteen

09-21-2005, 05:50 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

Shoudn't .01-.02 games have a max buy in for $2?

At bugsy's max buy-in is $10 for .01/.02 and $20 for .02/.04. However, most people do not buy in for the max.

I don't particularly like bugsy's, but my poker options are limited because I'm a mac user. There's not enough traffic at bugsy's for a good player to make any real money. It usually has about 3k people logged in at any one time and their numbers include play-money and bugsy BBP(bonus point) tables. It's been good for someone like me who's just learning the ropes, but I plan to move on once I clear my bonus.

vqc

09-21-2005, 06:48 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 5,427

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirteen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

Shoudn't .01-.02 games have a max buy in for $2?

At bugsy's max buy-in is $10 for .01/.02 and $20 for .02/.04. However, most people do not buy in for the max.

THose are some deep stacks.

Whats the max buyin for 1/2?

thirteen

09-21-2005, 07:04 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by vqchuang

THose are some deep stacks.

Whats the max buyin for 1/2?

The $1/$2 does not appear to have a max buy-in. From .25/.50 and up only lists a minimum buy in not a maximum and when you sit, it has a button for buying in with your entire bankroll. I've not played these tables so I could be wrong but that's how it appears. The .05/.10, .02/.04 and .01/.02 all have a maximum buy-in listed whereas the .25/.50 and up do not.

To give you an idea of how little action is here, usually there is only two or three $1/$2 and .25/.50 tables at peak times. During the day you'll likely only find one of each.

edudlive

09-21-2005, 10:30 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

I just go by what I feel, if the table is full of small stacks at 25NL, I'll sit with $25 so I can be a bully. If the table has larger stacks, I'll sit with $10 knowing I can easily double up through them.

I sat with $2 at 10NL last night, I left 2 hours later with $32...it all depends on the table

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Miffed22001

09-22-2005, 09:44 AM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

If you cant afford to buy in for the max amount then consider changing limits, realy you shouldnt play outside of your roll, even at micro limits (that includes you EDUD!!!!!)
The reasons for me are simple.
Ability to bully/push people out of pots.
If you double up you make the most!!!!
If their is a multi-way all in and you have the nuts....
Also you dont play scared.

There are so many benefits of playing with the big stack that you must take advantage imo. Opp's may double you up in no time but you want their whole stack not just half of it
Buy in for full.

edudlive

09-22-2005, 01:52 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I'm rolled for 25NL now, I didn't get to tell you the news (hadn't updated my sig, it is now correct)

I sat with $2 again at a 10NL table last night, my friend and I sat here for about an hour and left with $40...but we were playing very hyper aggressive

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
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biondino

09-22-2005, 02:30 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

"Also you dont play scared. "

I wish this was the case. The bigger my stack, the more nervous I get when I am obliged to push. I know this is a hole, but I still feel it - and it hurts a lot more to lsoe £50 than £20.

Crotalusatrox

09-23-2005, 10:17 PM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

Shoudn't .01-.02 games have a max buy in for $2?

The games I play on Poker Stars have a max $5 buy in. I usually do similar to the OP though. My bankroll is about the same size as his, and I am not comfortable putting in more than 10% of my BR on any given day. I usually look for mid sized pots at the table and try to get in around $2-$3.

Stakes Currently Played: $0.01/$0.02 NL, $1.50+$o.25 Turbo SnG, and $2-$3 MTTs
Short Term Goal: Build my BR to $200 and move to $0.05/$0.10 stakes
Long term Goal:WSoP
My mantra: Stay tight, be patient, make a good hand and drop the hammer.

JeffreyGB

09-24-2005, 12:02 AM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

For a lot of people, buying in short is a handicap. However, if you know what you're doing and you are doing it for the right reasons, it can work out well, for exactly the reason Pat begrudgingly stated: you can get paid off more on your big hands. Obviously, there are tables were you can get paid off just as well at lower stakes, but frequently this is not the case.

For the record, I built my BR from $10 to over $1k playing short stack NL ring. One nice thing is that if you can maintain a decent win rate, taking home 5BB/100 means a lot more when you're playing for blinds that are a higher portion of your buyin (assuming that you buyin at a higher level as a result, whenever possible).

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