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But I have TPTK

  
 
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AFchung
Old 03-14-2009, 10:39 PM     Post subject: But I have TPTK #1 (permalink)  
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28/10 over 40 hands

Should we be getting away on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG+1 ($10.75)
MP1 ($7.70)
Hero (MP2) ($10.30)
MP3 ($2)
CO ($10.95)
Button ($6.90)
SB ($5.65)
BB ($10)
UTG ($2.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.50, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.15) 4, 2, A (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.70, UTG+1 calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.55) 7 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $4, Hero calls $2

River: ($10.55) 8 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $5.55 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $10.55 | Rake: $0.50
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OneEyeLefty
Old 03-14-2009, 10:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Tough to get away from this one. Hopefully chopping. What can be his range with a limp call to a 5X's raise? Maybe A rag but we are learning from this experience.

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Micro2Macro
Old 03-14-2009, 10:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Just from expeince: when a player who has VPIP and PFR stats spread out more than 50%, they basically suck ass and are fairly passive.
So when you get c/r on the turn TPTK usually is no good.

Some may say go ahead and pay it off because of his stupid fuck-tard min raise or whatever. The one thing I hate about this hand is you call the c/r then fold a blank(ish) river. Even though his raise is weak I just fold turn because I know I'm not calling the river unless I'm sure he's showing up with AJ/AQ or worse enough.

His range his is probably alot of weak suited aces and small pairs due to the preflop action. With that info I fold because this range has hit pretty hard by the turn. If you see him c/min raising more often down the road, perhaps look him up next time, just don't call the c/r if you plan on folding a river blank, other than that looks fine.
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Carroters
Old 03-14-2009, 10:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 This is a horrible spot imo. I never fold turn here, that's just so gross it's another ace here sometimes I think. Although his line defo screams set so I can see why you folded river.

Given we're getting 3-1 on the river I'd just go ahead an pay this off, although it is really gross and I would expect to lose over half of the time at least. Not sure we can fold to the half pot shove though on the river without some sort of read that villain would never donkilly do this with AQ, AJ or air.

 
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Micro2Macro
Old 03-14-2009, 10:56 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 1. What's his AF?
2. Has he done this before?
3. Have you seen him showdown top pair? If so what was his line?

If 1 is low, 2 is no, 3 is not raise, then fold.

If he's tricky/aggressive and plays 1 pair hands or draws aggressively I call.

Carroters a loose/passive played check raising the turn screams set or 2 pair so we don't need a river shove to justify it, that's why I think calling against this type of player is a spew even on the turn.

The line he took is pretty strong so that's why I fold the turn. If I see this player do this again I'm going to be more suspicious next time and probably call it off.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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Monsieur_chat
Old 03-14-2009, 11:02 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Some may say go ahead and pay it off because of his stupid fuck-tard min raise or whatever. The one thing I hate about this hand is you call the c/r then fold a blank(ish) river.
If we're calling him a stupid fuck-tard, surely we can't credit him with knowing how to make a proper raise?

Also, I'm curious about something, as it's something I've noticed you do in a number of hands - If we're calling this turn (especially when we've been check raised) what are we hoping for on the river which will mean we can call and get to show down? I mean, I'm not sure that the 8 really changes much, so if we're folding this river we must be thinking we were behind on the turn? If that is the case should we be calling it?
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Monsieur_chat
Old 03-14-2009, 11:04 PM #7 (permalink)  
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lol sorry, I realise I've essentially just repeated m2m's point about calling the turn and folding the river, I guess he just types quicker than me!
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poker_pup
Old 03-15-2009, 01:29 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Most likely beat on the turn, I'd fold to the check raise. At this level, check raises almost always mean TPTK is beat.
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ChrisBCritter
Old 03-15-2009, 01:55 AM #9 (permalink)  
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On turn: fold>push>call

And depending on villian, push>fold>call

In both cases, calling is the worst option IMO... Having called turn, you gotta suck it up and pay it off on the non-spade river.
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