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BooG690

03-09-2009, 06:50 AM Post subject: Breakeven Sessions

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Posts: 1,439

They suck.

When do you choose it's time to just call it a night?

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.

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Jason

03-09-2009, 06:54 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: TN

Posts: 883

Jason is an unknown quantity at this point

While not as good as "make lots of money" sessions, "break even" sessions kick the crap out of "losing" sessions.

I say keep playing as long as you're playing well, not tilting, want to play, the game is good, and you have not lost more than 5% of your bankroll for that day. Good luck.

- Jason

xpaand

03-09-2009, 07:31 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

Yeah I agree. I just keep playing cause as long as you're still making quality decisions. In the long run, it won't make a difference when you stop playing (IF and ONLY IF you aren't tilting/getting tired/etc.)

OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".

Sir Pawnalot

03-09-2009, 01:20 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Norway

Posts: 668

If I am breakeven after a while on the table I make some assessments:

1. Do I have a significant edge versus opponents? If not I try to find a better table/tables.

2. Have I developed strong reads which I can exploit if I continue?

3. Have I given off tells, tendencies or information that I can use against villains?

In general, if people dont fear me on the table or fail to accept that I am table captain, I dont like my situation. Fear hinders the brain from functioning optimally, just as stress does. But if you scare them too much they will leave the table- so its a balancing act. More often than not the good players leaves... which makes it shorthanded versus fish. Yummy!

A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.

Muzzard

03-09-2009, 01:33 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

Whether you are winning, losing or breaking even in a session, you are always winning (or losing in some cases) your historical bb/100 at that level.

Sir Pawnalot

03-09-2009, 02:39 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Norway

Posts: 668

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Whether you are winning, losing or breaking even in a session, you are always winning (or losing in some cases) your historical bb/100 at that level.

This I must disagree with. If you estimate yourself the 8th best player on the level you are playing- and sit on a table with the 10 best players- you are statistically having a losing session. Also, even if you are the best player- and play poorly one session because of tiredness, tilt or depression you have a losing session.

But in a sense you are right. If you are a statistically winning player- in the long run you will spend more time on tables with worse players than yourself thus winning.

The conclusion that a winning player can always assume his historical winrate is a fallacy.

A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.

Muzzard

03-09-2009, 02:53 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Whether you are winning, losing or breaking even in a session, you are always winning (or losing in some cases) your historical bb/100 at that level.

blah

I'm assuming your table selection is consistent.

oskar

03-09-2009, 03:28 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

I usually set the time for my session before I start it, and it's for 2 hours mostly. Even if I plan on playing longer, I'll close down all the tables and take a break so I don't loose concentration.

I might quit early if I run exceptionally bad to prevent tilting, but that hasn't happened in a month.

The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

dev

03-09-2009, 03:57 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

What most good players I know do:

Set a time to end your session.
If you are playing badly, quit.
If you are losing enough to make you play badly, quit.
If the tables are no longer good (no more fish), quit or switch tables.

Don't make your decision based on how up or down you are. Think long-term.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

mormannorman

03-09-2009, 04:30 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Alaska

Posts: 32

Depends.

If you aren't having fun or are playing badly, quit, even if conditions are favorable.

But if some donks at the table have big stacks and have gotten lucky off of you or anyone else playing badly, this should be all the motivation you need.

Sir Pawnalot

03-09-2009, 05:07 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Norway

Posts: 668

Why would the hero ever play badly? I mean- why?

Sorry, but I do not understand. Thought everybody played their best all the time. Ofcourse we can make some minor EV- decisions from time to time- but playing badly?

Poker is more than just profits, and I am very happy mormannorman mentioned the fun aspect of poker. If poker gives us nothing than money we should probably quit altogether- or at least for that session.

A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.

Erpel

03-09-2009, 05:27 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

If you break even you're still playing better than the majority of your opposition. At least you're beating the rake.

Cheer up, think once more about why this specific game should be +EV for you, chase your edges and stop chasing where you don't have edges. Don't bluff calling stations or make hero calls etc.

If at any point during a session or on a table you cannot clearly see how the money is going to flow from the players at your table(s) to you - stop. If you can look at one guy and you know you can exploit him by not bluffing and value betting your solid hands you are in a good game. If you can see another guy and know you can play trash against him and get him to fold because he gives way too much credit you're in a good game.

Your measure of whether to continue a session should never reflect recent or distant results. The recent history at the table is a WEAPON you can use. Ok, so maybe they lucked out, but would your play seem solid or bad to them? How does that effect your image? How can you EXPLOIT that? How can you exploit every player at your table and make the money flow to you.

EVERY time you make a correct pre-flop fold a little more EV (EVs are baby monies, remember) flow to you.

Don't get fancy, don't get frustrated just play solid, play in position, play aggressive and above all - exploit your opponents.

oskar

03-09-2009, 05:59 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

I can hardly play a hand without doing something stupid. Poker is a complicated game.
For me it has become more of a challange lately. I'm not having a whole lot of fun playing the game, but I like the challange, and I like counting my money at the end of the month.

Micro2Macro

03-09-2009, 06:21 PM

#14 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: http://three-pair.com/

Posts: 4,463

I usually set a goal to get 'x' number of hands into a session. If I feel like my play is crap I cut it short. If I feel like my play is good, I may surpass my goal. Don't let how much you're winning or losing determine your choice to play: with the exception of any stop-loss you've put into action or if you happen to start playing poorly if your session goes bad then it's a good time to stop.

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

dev

03-09-2009, 06:26 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Oskar, take out a piece of paper and a pen, draw a line down the middle of the paper.

Every time you play a hand perfectly, mark the left side. Every time you feel you made a mistake in a hand, mark the right side. Aim to better your % every time you play.

Hmmm, I think this would be a good way to conquer FPS. I guess I'm going to be taking my own advice.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

okiman

03-09-2009, 07:08 PM

#16 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

Many factors can lead to hero playing below their best - tilt, exhaustion, mental fatigue, being hungry, feeling like they need to get back lost bankroll, etc. All of us need to find out what causes us to play sub-par poker and avoid those situations or work on improving them such that we won't play poorly when faced with that situation in the future.

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