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Breach of etiquette - or good play?

  
 
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DavSimon
Old 10-12-2004, 01:41 PM     Post subject: Breach of etiquette - or good play? #1 (permalink)  
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 Take a look at this play and let me know if I truly did something wrong. I would cut and paste the hand history, but unfortunately I downloaded the email at home and do not have access to it at work. This was a hand played last night on Poker Stars $.50/1 NL tables
I am in late position…button 1 spot to my left. I bought in at $40 and my stack is roughly $70 at this point

DavSimon Dealt - :Ac: :Qc:
5 callers for $1, I raise to $5….four callers.
Flop- rainbow
Checks around to me I bet $5…everyone folds except 1 caller (his stack is roughly $120)
Pot is roughly $32
Turn-
Opponent bets $16
I raise all in – he immediately calls
River- blank
We split the pot and then he proceeds to give me a serious and relentless tongue lashing about feeding the rake.

I understand and agree that there was a good chance he had the A.
At the time he was playing very aggressive and it very much looked like he was representing the straight….there was no risk of flush so he was drawing at a full house, had the straight or was bluffing. Did I breach some sort of etiquette here….I just don’t like passively calling that size bet, if it were a bluff or semi bluff w/ him drawing at a boat, giving him a “free” card could be disastrous. Anyway those are my thought on the matter….what are yours?
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Humphrind
Old 10-12-2004, 02:10 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Yea. SOme people are stingy about how much they pay the rake. In a situation like that it would be easy to see you or him putting the other on the A.

I say bet. There are so many hand that he could have, trips, 2 pair, low end of the straight. It's not his place to tell you how much to bet with your hand.

I would compare this to Omaha hi/lo. If you have the nut low and he has a good high hand. You should bet and hope to take more than just half the pot. If you can bet big enough you can take the whole pot. If you don't pull off your bluff, the worst that happens is you split the pot.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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LugNutz
Old 10-12-2004, 02:14 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Absolutely play it the way you did! There is no way to be sure what he had... you can make a reasonable guess but I'm sure we've all seen enough bad plays to never know for sure. You certainly can't allow other players to dictate your game to you. Well, I guess you could but that would be kinda silly


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Humphrind
Old 10-12-2004, 02:28 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNutz
You certainly can't allow other players to dictate your game to you.
Yea. Don't let others tell you how to play your game. Just play it like I tell you!
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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hig13
Old 10-12-2004, 04:44 PM #5 (permalink)  

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If you come across this again, tell the other person to fold when you are in the pot and you will take care of the rake.

It was probably just frustration on their part. Don't take anything anyone says at the poker table personally or seriously. If they get in your head, and make you change your game, then they have gained an advantage that wasn't there before.
Insane people are always sure that they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-12-2004, 04:47 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Poker Star's rake is 5% of the pot to a maximum of $3.

The pot after the flop was ~$32, making the rake already $1.60.

The turn HE bet $16 himself, if you were to just call, the pot after the turn would be $64, and the rake would have been $3.20 but it capped at $3.

This guy was a complete dumbass and you should have proceeded to tell him that he has no knowledge of the rake structure where he is playing. Then proceed to call him a dumbass for calling on an inside straight draw with his only hope to split the pot in the end.

Maybe after all this dumbassing he'll either get the point or get mad, either way both benefitial.


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DavSimon
Old 10-12-2004, 05:00 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Thank you for the support!
I let him rant for a while, I had a few very calm remarks which incensed him further. He did get a few people to turn against me at the table (really worked to my benefit)- the other half was on my side...all-in-all it was pretty entertaining, passed the time between playable hands. I just wanted to be sure I didn't violate some unwritten rule of etiquette since I am releatively new to online poker.
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jmrogers7
Old 10-12-2004, 05:47 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Play it exactly the way you did every time. You should have said, "Thanks for the lesson. I'm not really worried about the rake all that much. After about and hour, your chips should more than help pay for it."
"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 10-12-2004, 06:19 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Besides, poker isn't about the money!


...what?


-'rilla

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Les_Worm
Old 10-12-2004, 06:45 PM #10 (permalink)  
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The raise you made was fine.

One a side note, bet bigger on that flop.
The artist formerly known as Knish
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DavSimon
Old 10-12-2004, 08:07 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 I know I should have bet the flop stronger....could have won me the pot at that point instad of 1/2 of it. I still have trouble knowing where the line is, I big bet the flop with a very strong hand and everyone folds (most of the time) or middle bet it and get a caller or two. Of course the risk is letting a good hand become a great one....one of the nuances I am still working on.
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koolmoe
Old 10-12-2004, 08:37 PM #12 (permalink)  
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If you are almost (99%?) certain he has an A, you might reconsider raising all in because of the fact that he might be freerolling on the diamond (ATd?).

Otherwise, fire away.

An aside: recently I didn't raise my nut boat on a QQ727 board because I didn't want to contribute to the rake (There was the slight possibility that I was losing to quad 7's, but I didn't really consider that at all). My opponent had a 7, and I probably could have taken him for another $15.

I think he was savvy enough to fold to my reraise, but if we were tied it would have only cost me $.38 in rake for a (possibly slim - only needs to be 2.5%) chance to win $15. I wish I had raised.
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Humphrind
Old 10-12-2004, 11:18 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoe
recently I didn't raise my nut boat...
I had something similar a while back. Flop came 666 and I held A6. Played it pretty slow (too slow, but this was a while ago and I was a little new to poker) and the other guy was complaining, "You're just paying more to the rake. Stop raising." He was mad about paying the rake until he saw my hand.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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FyrFytr998
Old 10-13-2004, 07:05 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I say screw him and everyone else that bitches about a rake. The rake is part of the priviledge of playing. If he was that worried about the rake. He could have folded. No one is gonna give you any money for playing how they like.

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DavSimon
Old 10-14-2004, 01:00 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 FyrFytr998, kinda what I was thinking. The rake is a sunk cost...cost of doing business...however you want to phrase it. I have my hands full playing my hand, putting my opponent on a hand, trying to fugure outs and pot odds (which is not easy for me yet) I don't really concern myself with the rake, I am concerned with trying to win the hand.
With that said, I have been using Poker Tracker for about 6 days now (just registered it yesterday) and I am shocked by how much I have payed the rake in the last week.
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Old 10-18-2004, 07:05 PM #16 (permalink)  
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You shouldn't be adjusting your game solely if other people have a go at you. You do what YOU want to do at a poker table (ie. when to check, raise, bet, fold) and let no-one else complaining about your style affect you.
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PipeLN
Old 10-19-2004, 11:10 PM #17 (permalink)  
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I always bitch at people even if they played the hand perfectly. A weak player will start playing loose to "teach me a lesson". I love to make a player go on tilt from winning. That is when I start to reel them in. Don't pay attention to what people say. They are either idiots or using it as a tactic. Just decide which one they are and play accordingly.

Right Click and select "Block Chat". Then tell others they can do the same if they are tired of his complaining.

PipeLN
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DavSimon
Old 10-20-2004, 02:59 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 PipeLN, I had not considered that it may be part of a strategy on his part...thanks for the heads up. I don't get rattled easily, so people bitching at me for making the occasional genuine bad move does not bother me....I don't fancy myself a great player - so lack of ego helps when people call me a noob or fish.
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