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apunisher
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05-25-2006, 01:11 PM
Post subject: BR reqs...?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 398
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Hi,
Before about a week or two ago, i had been playing the majority of my poker on the party $11 sngs. I became kinda bored after a while with the monotany of the sngs that i decided to switch to ring with my br at about $600. I started 4-tabling the 25NL at party, and my br is at ~775. Is there a suggested x number of buyins to have before moving to the 50NLs? Also, is there a significant difference in skill level between 25 to 50.
Thanks for the replies.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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The rule of thumb is to have 20 buy-ins. So for 50NL that would be $1k. You can adjust this as you see fit according to your confidence. Ie, if the stake is new, I always go in expecting a 5 buy-in downswing from adjustment problems, so I would want to have atleast 16 buy-ins. However, lower stakes that I feel I have mastered, 10 buy-ins is enough. If I were ever to make it to 200NL and up, I'd probably go for more than 20 buy-ins because we're talking a lot more money here, and as such more strain on yourself so you want to be comfortable imo.
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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renton's thoughts on skill levels
Quote:
Full ring on Party:
25nl: 85% fish, 10% semi-aware, 5% aware
50nl: 75% fish, 15% semi-aware, 5% aware, 5% shark
100nl: 60% fish, 20% semi-aware, 15% aware, 5% shark
200nl: 40% fish, 25% semi-aware, 20% aware, 15% shark
...as far as I can tell.
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jackvance you should be playing at 25NL and above, you are good enough
hopefully you will get your br straightened out
good luck
flomo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Yeah I want to move up to 50NL. I find 20NL just as dull as 10NL. Already made $160 today so I'm on my way to getting rolled for 50NL. I'm just a tad afraid a big downswing might hit me before I make the $800 I want for 50NL. But it would be foolish to move up sooner I think, because I'm calculating in a possible 5 buy-in downswing for adjusting to the different playstyle and money amounts.
Oh and you been playing more 6max on prima or you done with that?
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siknd
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 359
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i play fewer tables than most ppl, so if you play 4+ this wont apply. but i really think waiting for 20 buyins can retard your progress, that is, if you are looking to accelerate through the foodchain vs make immediate money.
i like to have 10 buyins + buyins x # of tables you play. so if i play 3 tables at 100nl, i maintain a BR of 1300$. if i drop below that level, i drop stakes or reduce tables. in this example i would start 200nl with 2600$.
ten buyins is more than enough to account for normal variance, so long as you are disciplined enough to play stakes below your ability when necessary.
maybe this is horrible advice, i dont know. but having a huge bankroll at low stakes is kinda like not investing capital.
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'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I agree siknd, on the premise that you are a winning player at said stake. If you're moving up however or are generally not yet comfortable at a stake, you really need more than 10 though.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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saywhat2
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
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I totally disagree with SIKND. 10 Buy ins is not enough. Unless if you are a player who likes to play on a short scared bankroll. (Some people play better that way) I find it very hard to be aggressive when my bankroll is short. And if you want to be successful at the higher NL limits you have to be aggressive. Are you telling me you never took 5 bad beats in a row? I like to play with a big cushion.
95% of my poker playing is played at 200 Nl. And I never let my roll go below 6000. Now that’s just me. At the end of the month I take out anything over 6000. I remember a 15 minute stretch once where I lost with queens full twice. And ace high flush twice. At the same table. 800 dollars I n 15 minutes. Now I will say a 10 buy in swing is a lot and should not happen very often. But if you play long enough it will.
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siknd
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 359
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of course it will. i just like to push my BR as hard as i can in order to maximize ROI. the second i dropped 5 buyins, i would drop down.
i have kept records for years and it is very unusual for me to drop 10 buyins. the occasions it happened had nothing to do with normal variance.
that said, part of the reason i can feel comfortable playing 'short' is because i have cashed out $ exceeding my current bankroll several times over. so while i COULD keep tens of thousands of dollars online, i prefer to keep what i need to sustain myself, knowing that in a worst case armaggedeon scenario i can reload money that realistically could be counted part of my bankroll anyhow.
i did say that i thot this was potentially bad advice 
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'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
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NJJayhawk
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 18
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ok just a general question and i feel stupid for asking...but when we refer to bankroll...are we referring to all the money we're willing to spend on poker or just the money we have left in our poker accounts?
the money i have in my partypoker is around 1K and I play around 33-55 buy-ins....however i have more money outside of my account that i paid out with...so i don't really know how to answer the question
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NJJayhawk
ok just a general question and i feel stupid for asking...but when we refer to bankroll...are we referring to all the money we're willing to spend on poker or just the money we have left in our poker accounts?
the money i have in my partypoker is around 1K and I play around 33-55 buy-ins....however i have more money outside of my account that i paid out with...so i don't really know how to answer the question |
Its really all the money you are willing to spend on poker because if you bust at the site you can reload from your BR.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Yeah I want to move up to 50NL. I find 20NL just as dull as 10NL. Already made $160 today so I'm on my way to getting rolled for 50NL. I'm just a tad afraid a big downswing might hit me before I make the $800 I want for 50NL. But it would be foolish to move up sooner I think, because I'm calculating in a possible 5 buy-in downswing for adjusting to the different playstyle and money amounts.
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Expecting a 5 buyin downswing when you move up is not good mentally at all. Can it happen? Yes. Will it always? No, and it shouldnt be expected. The difference between $25 and 50nl in terms of skill and playstyle is incredible small and not really noticeable. If you expect to lose 5 buyins, you could play scared and have it affect your play, or you could play bad in general but think "hey, I was supposed to lose 5 buyins, so I shouldnt be worried about it." Both of those are bad. When I moved up to $50nl I did drop a little less than 5 buyins [over 6k hands], but not because of the new money amounts and playstyles, because of a bad swing of variance, and yes some bad play was figured in there too. If you lose 5 buyins with your aces getting cracked too often, set over set nonstop, boat to higher boat, etc. then there probably isnt a ton you can do [as was the case for me, but Id say about 1 buyin was from just poor play]. But moving up you shouldnt simply expect it to happen. Just play your game.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NJJayhawk
ok just a general question and i feel stupid for asking...but when we refer to bankroll...are we referring to all the money we're willing to spend on poker or just the money we have left in our poker accounts?
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If you are willing to put in more money should the need arise, you should consider that money part of your bankroll.
To the OP, doing a search should give you your answers, but anyways the standard response is 20 buyins, some say less, some say more, it is really more dependent on what you are comfortable with. I would still suggest 20 though.
Read this thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...fpart=all&vc=1
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Dsax and I were discussing this the other day. Perosnally, I error on a larger bankroll than most. I'll move up at say 24x, but if I'm playing and cashing out, I'm cashing out anything over 40x. My "comfortzone" is 30x. I 8 table $25NL, I want $750. $50 I want $1500. Its a mental thing for me, but if I blow say 5 buyins in a day, bad beats or not, I'm not phased mentally.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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If you are playing professionally, I would recommend at least a 50 buyin poker bankroll and at least 6 months living expences saved up on the side.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Expecting a 5 buyin downswing when you move up is not good mentally at all.
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For me it is. I'm very prone to overconfidence, so keeping in mind that it can go bad too keeps me level. If I was expecting to beat 50NL straight up, I'd move to 50NL right away since I have over 10 buyins already..
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saywhat2
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
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Your Bankroll should not be touched. It should not be considered part of your every day living money. Look at your bankroll as a tool you need to do a job. If you have 500 in your bankroll and you lose it and than go into you personal money for 500 more that next 500 is not part of your original bankroll. Keep the money seperate and never ever touch it for anything but making money playing poker. Thats the advice given to me and I have used it for over 20 years.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by saywhat2
Your Bankroll should not be touched. It should not be considered part of your every day living money. Look at your bankroll as a tool you need to do a job. If you have 500 in your bankroll and you lose it and than go into you personal money for 500 more that next 500 is not part of your original bankroll. Keep the money seperate and never ever touch it for anything but making money playing poker. Thats the advice given to me and I have used it for over 20 years.
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Quoted for Truth!
Your bankroll is a capital investment like owning a business. If you own a car wash, you can't sell half of your car washing bays and still expect to make the same amount of money washing cars. If you have half the capital investment you will only be able to make about half of the money you used to.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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