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saxdaddy
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03-20-2006, 07:42 PM
Post subject: BR management - when to move down a level
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 37
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Let's say I have built my BR to 2k. I should now have the propper BR to play .5/1 NL. But what if I run into a little varience and drop down to 1800? Should I drop back down to the .25/.5 tables or stick with it? Maybe I should have a little buffer like wait till 2200 to play .5/1. Any suggestions as to when to drop back down? 1500? 1000?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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I would probably play 100nl until I lost down to 1.5k.
How long have you been beating 50nl? I am more than rolled for 100nl now (2.3K) but I am going to have a 15k track record for beating 50nl before I move up. (I am 8.5bb/100 for 6.5k hands, so almost 1/2 way there.)
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saxdaddy
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 37
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OK, here is the sad story. I played 50NL till my BR was 2k, then 100NL till my BR was 4k then 200NL till BR was 5400. That took prob 15k hands. The disaster struck and I lost (destacked) a set of Jacks to a set of Kings, Q high flush on the flop to a big raiser preflop who had AK flush. Sets lost to flushes, 4 of a kind to a str8 flush (yea my 4th 8 made his str8 flush) and the like. Every kind of suck out imaginable, and I was back to 2k. I moved back down to .5/1 and got killed some more. Varience kicked my ass in January and I ended up back down to $8! Back to .05/.10 again. Feb i built it up to $100, March 1st 2 weeks at .10/.25 built back up to $250, Went back to .50/1.00 for 1 wk and up to 1k. Went to .50/1.00 for a week and am back at 2k. Since being busted down to $8 I have about 3k hands and a 20bb/100 stat. I think I'll stay at the 100NL now till 4k. I know I have been playing over my BR, but I think I am a decent player when I keep Mr Jeckel at bay. I think I could have avaoided the huge slide if I had not stayed at the higher limits when I hit the neg varience streak. So my question is really aimed to help other players avoid this costly mistake. Hence the post: "What is the correct time to move down a level?" I still can't believe I blew $5k! I made it before, I can make it again. I am proud to be back at $2k. No more disasters please.
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"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly."
-Batman costume warning label
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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if I were you I would kill 50nl for another 10k hands or so just to boost your confidence. Maybe try following a 30x buyin rule so you don't get screwed again. It could just be that you have a high variance style.
Do you play full ring or six max?
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saxdaddy
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 37
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I play 99% 6 max. 30x buyin sounds like good advice. Thanks.
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"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly."
-Batman costume warning label
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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ya six max you def. need more than 20 IMO
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Seasider
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bangor UK
Posts: 563
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by saxdaddy
OK, here is the sad story. I played 50NL till my BR was 2k, then 100NL till my BR was 4k then 200NL till BR was 5400. That took prob 15k hands. The disaster struck and I lost (destacked) a set of Jacks to a set of Kings, Q high flush on the flop to a big raiser preflop who had AK flush. Sets lost to flushes, 4 of a kind to a str8 flush (yea my 4th 8 made his str8 flush) and the like. Every kind of suck out imaginable, and I was back to 2k. I moved back down to .5/1 and got killed some more. Varience kicked my ass in January and I ended up back down to $8! Back to .05/.10 again. Feb i built it up to $100, March 1st 2 weeks at .10/.25 built back up to $250, Went back to .50/1.00 for 1 wk and up to 1k. Went to .50/1.00 for a week and am back at 2k. Since being busted down to $8 I have about 3k hands and a 20bb/100 stat. I think I'll stay at the 100NL now till 4k. I know I have been playing over my BR, but I think I am a decent player when I keep Mr Jeckel at bay. I think I could have avaoided the huge slide if I had not stayed at the higher limits when I hit the neg varience streak. So my question is really aimed to help other players avoid this costly mistake. Hence the post: "What is the correct time to move down a level?" I still can't believe I blew $5k! I made it before, I can make it again. I am proud to be back at $2k. No more disasters please.
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My stomach feels queezy just reading that. Creds for getting back on the horse and moving down, I would of blown it!
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Ive been having a similar experience since moving up to 25NL. I managed to break even until yesterday when I lost a few buyins and now im down to $440. I figure I need $200 to play safe comfortable 10NL so ill probably stick at 25NL until I hit $350. Hopefully it wont go that far and ill start winning again first  .
The staggering of the buyins means I have quite a comfortable window to be able to lose in before I move down, and still be slightly overbankrolled for 10NL if I need to move down.
My suggestion at small stakes would be to move up when you have 20 buyins for the next level, and move down when you are down to 30 or so buyins for the previous level. As you get higher in stakes you will probably find you need a relativly bigger bankroll as your edge will get smaller. You might want to get to 30 or so buyins before moving up at high stakes but i havnt actually been there so thats just a guess.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Wow man... that's quite the quick build and quicker drop. I strongly suggest more buy-ins available within your bankroll, especially for 6-max. You must have dicipline to move down when you are dropping below your prescribed level. Jesus Ferguson dropped two levels I believe during his first $20,000 quest online.
On a personal note: I finally made it to the 2.5K mark on 25NL (took about 2 months). I lost 5 buy-ins on 50NL in a few hours and now I'm back at the 'ol fishing pond (well, not that old). I played way out of my style ie. calling with middle pair OOP with tons of players, paying off draws big that hit, loosing to sets with TPTK, loosing to JQ with A7 on a 689T board... I blame half on variance, half on fishy play on my behalf. It was weird.. the first big hand I was involved in was 5 minutes in (the last straight hand I mentioned). I was called a fish, for the first time since I started playing online.
Give it a few days, and I'll be back for another interview for my promotion again.
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pizzatron
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 40
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I like to use the 30/25 rule. I move up when I have 30 buy-ins (and that I feel ready) and drop back down a level if i only have 25 buy-ins for the higher level. I just drop back down whether it is because of bad luck or poor play.
This way if you do drop 5 buy-ins moving up, you can figure out whether you were outplayed or it was negative variance. It also forces you to make 10 buy-ins at the lower level again and you'll have more confidence on your next try.
Obviously you don't have to use the 30/25 rule, you can do 25/20, or 35/30 depending on your risk tolerance, the level you play at, and how bad streaks affect your play. It also depends on how many tables you play, if you're 4+-tabler I think you should have more buy-ins for a buffer, but you don't need as many if you play only 2 or 3 tables at once.
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