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asdpikas
Old 03-17-2009, 08:53 AM     Post subject: BR management #1 (permalink)  
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Hey, didnt know where to post this, so here it goes. If there is a better place for this, please move the thread.

So, I've been thinking a lot about BR, ROR, Kellying, etc...
A few questions directed mainly at the pros out there, but first a little info.

Been playing poker for a living for a while now. Currently I play mostly LHE 3-6 and I am over rolled for this level. I've been a winning player at all levels since the micros.
Not too long ago, I read "The math of poker" and started thinking a bit more about money management, risk of ruin, etc...

Up until now, i have been withdrawing only the money i really need, and keeping the rest for BR growth. I use a conservative BR/level ratio to choose stakes to minimize risk and ensure i can pay rent. I am not from the US, so i can play on different sites and move money without restrictions.

Questions:

1. How much of my money should be online at any given time?
2. Do you recommend having different bank accounts for BR and expenses?
3. Given that ROR increases when you withdraw money from your BR. How much of my profits can I safely withdraw from my total BR each month?
4. Do you guys use the "salary" system they mention in "the math of poker" or do you use other systems? If so, which ones?
5. Taking into account my aggressive style, and 2x average Std Dev. How many BBs should I have before taking shots at higher levels juicy games, thus improving my Kelly equity while keeping risk a minimum? Should I do this only if I have won more than my "salary" for a given month (if using the salary system)?
6. Any other things I should think about? (should be asking)

thanks
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asdpikas
Old 03-17-2009, 11:27 PM #2 (permalink)  
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anyone?
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dev
Old 03-18-2009, 01:26 AM #3 (permalink)  
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If you use tracking software then you can do some statistical analysis on your play. Playing poker for a living is a risk, some people go nuts and play with 20 buyins and cashout everything else and probably go broke, some people are total nits and play with 100 buyins and cashout only what they need.

I'm not really familiar with standard limit BR management (except to say that 300BB is roughly equivalent to the NL player's 20 buyins).

I think your questions have to be answered in the context of your life and your goals. That said, here's a shot:

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
1. How much of my money should be online at any given time?
2. Do you recommend having different bank accounts for BR and expenses?
3. Given that ROR increases when you withdraw money from your BR. How much of my profits can I safely withdraw from my total BR each month?
4. Do you guys use the "salary" system they mention in "the math of poker" or do you use other systems? If so, which ones?
5. Taking into account my aggressive style, and 2x average Std Dev. How many BBs should I have before taking shots at higher levels juicy games, thus improving my Kelly equity while keeping risk a minimum? Should I do this only if I have won more than my "salary" for a given month (if using the salary system)?
6. Any other things I should think about? (should be asking)
1. Enough so that you wont have to move down if you lose a reasonable amount of buyins. (say you run 2 standard deviations below the norm for 10k hands, you wont have to move down)
2. It depends on tax law in your country.
3. see 1.
4. I haven't read that book, but I send myself the same check every month no matter what I make. I've considered cashing out extra for one time expenses, etc. but I haven't had to because I also play live.
5. You have to figure this out based on your numbers.
6. Think about where you want your life to lead, and make your decisions based on that.
Check out my self-deprecation here!
 
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moemtg
Old 03-18-2009, 03:31 AM     Post subject: Hi There #4 (permalink)  
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This probably won't answer any of your question(s) but may help you... Keep the the rule of 1% of your bankroll... hell I can make a $5 bankroll (if you can even call it that) into $25 in one days work... sounds like a long time but that is five times the amount then when you started with and just from .50 cents. This is of course playing fixed limit on the micro tables for a few hours till you turn that .50 cents into at least $5... then up it to the .05/.10 FL or .02/.04 NL (I prefer FL) and just have patients... try and have a tv by you with recordings of DVR of ESPN's Classic WSOP events... this will keep you entertained and alert and learning as well as help time pass by... then once you get to the $10 -15 go for the .10/.20 tables and try to find the weaklings... also a lot of table on UB and FT have bots on them and they are easily recognizable... just simply raising them usually makes them auto fold. Just stick to the 1% rule and you shouldn't go astray... Thats my tip of the day!

Justin.
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Sir Pawnalot
Old 03-18-2009, 12:42 PM     Post subject: Re: Hi There #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moemtg
This probably won't answer any of your question(s) but may help you... Keep the the rule of 1% of your bankroll... hell I can make a $5 bankroll (if you can even call it that) into $25 in one days work... sounds like a long time but that is five times the amount then when you started with and just from .50 cents. This is of course playing fixed limit on the micro tables for a few hours till you turn that .50 cents into at least $5... then up it to the .05/.10 FL or .02/.04 NL (I prefer FL) and just have patients... try and have a tv by you with recordings of DVR of ESPN's Classic WSOP events... this will keep you entertained and alert and learning as well as help time pass by... then once you get to the $10 -15 go for the .10/.20 tables and try to find the weaklings... also a lot of table on UB and FT have bots on them and they are easily recognizable... just simply raising them usually makes them auto fold. Just stick to the 1% rule and you shouldn't go astray... Thats my tip of the day!

Justin.
I know you trying to execute an advanced ironic joke here, but please be topical.

Adspikas- you are highly intelligent and as Dev said this must be a personal consideration of yours. The answer of any problem is implied in the questions. I do not think anyone can answer this for you, but hopefully some other pros will give their inputs on how they manage their poker money.
A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
 
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XTR1000
Old 03-18-2009, 12:46 PM     Post subject: Re: Hi There #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moemtg
and just have patients...
yes.
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-18-2009, 02:55 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dev
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot
...
thx. A lot for me to think about here
Hope other pros post some insights too.
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Outlaw
Old 03-18-2009, 08:13 PM #8 (permalink)  
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There are quiet a few good threads on this topic that should show up in a search. Most say keep a "working bankroll" intact then withdrawal a certain % of whatever you make each month.. never taking anything from the working bankroll... of course if you want to move up in levels you build the working bankroll to a new level.

My plan is to get 50 buy-ins for whatever level I play at and withdrawal 50% of whatever I make each month, letting the other half build the BR towards higher stakes.. that way I don't get to the higher level too fast and it gives me time to improve my game so that I am more ready when I get there.
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