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Local_Echo
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04-05-2007, 05:29 PM
Post subject: BR for cash games?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 92
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I'm sure this post has been done to death, but I wanted some fresh input on this. I currently have about $600 on FT and I was pondering moving to cash games. Would I be properly rolled for the $25 NL games? I've heard from time to time that it's a matter of comfort, but I was just wondering if there were a few standard numbers out there that'd help me make my decision. I've played $25 NL cash games and I thought I was pretty successful at them in the past, but I just want to be sure I'm properly rolled for it if I decide to make a run at the cash games again. Thanks!
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"Poker is a godless game, full of random pain." - Andy Bloch
"I can't watch TV longer than 5 minutes without praying for nuclear holocaust." - Bill Hicks
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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I think the figure you will see most often is that you should have 20 times the buy in, so for $25 you should have at least $500 (which is my next goal to move up to, by the way...).
I think the other thing to watch for, esp. if moving from tourneys or sng's where the buy in is clearly defined, is that you set a limit for an amount to lose in a particular session. With a $10 sng, you know that if you don't cash you are only out $10. In ring games, my tendency if I got stacked was to rebuy and try to win it back right away, and tilt be damned. It was really easy to lose a bundle (like $40 or more in a $10) if things were going bad and tilt left the runway.
Now I set a session losing limit of 5% of my bankroll. If I am at $400, I quit if I lose $20, and my roll never takes a huge hit in one day even if I run bad. I might leave the computer, and then come back a couple hours later or the next day and things are completely different. I think quite a few players who are profitable over the long run do something similar.
The only problem is that sometimes when you're on steam it's hard to follow your plan. But it has been working pretty well for me. I think the key is trying to always play within your comfort level instead of in a state of fear, when you will make bad decisions.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez
Now I set a session losing limit of 5% of my bankroll. If I am at $400, I quit if I lose $20, and my roll never takes a huge hit in one day even if I run bad. I might leave the computer, and then come back a couple hours later or the next day and things are completely different.
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Jesus christ, you drop 1 buyin, and that's it, your sessions over? Damn, you can't have very long sessions..
If I was you I'd learn to control tilt, then you can increase that to 10%, etc.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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yeah, I agree 20buy-ins. I started my operation with 25 @ 25NL. It depends on your comfort level, but i think 20-30 is a good area.
I 2 table mostly but I do3/4 table at times, just depends on my mood, how I think I'm running and tables available.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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You're properly rolled for 25NL. If you drop much below $400 I'd say you're over your head at 25NL and should move down.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I currently have 44buyins for my level and I won't move up until I have at least 25 buyins for the next level.
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Local_Echo
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 92
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Thanks for the responses! This is a little OT but, does anybody know where I can get a banner for my sig that shows a goal %? I've seen a few people around here with them.... and I think I should set some goals, personally.
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"Poker is a godless game, full of random pain." - Andy Bloch
"I can't watch TV longer than 5 minutes without praying for nuclear holocaust." - Bill Hicks
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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There's a thread in the poker etc. forum about it. It's under poker operations manager.
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez
Now I set a session losing limit of 5% of my bankroll. If I am at $400, I quit if I lose $20, and my roll never takes a huge hit in one day even if I run bad. I might leave the computer, and then come back a couple hours later or the next day and things are completely different.
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Jesus christ, you drop 1 buyin, and that's it, your sessions over? Damn, you can't have very long sessions..
If I was you I'd learn to control tilt, then you can increase that to 10%, etc. |
No. Right now I play $10NL and my roll is around $440, so 5% is $22, which is a bit over 2 buyins. Besides that, unless I get busted in a huge pot (like today, when I got my KK all in preflop vs. his AA... arghhh), I tend to control things a bit by keeping close track of which tables are really getting cold and switching if I get down to around $5. I've been 4-tabling lately, and if things are so rough that I can lose 5%, something is wrong with my approach, most likely, and I need to take a break and regroup. When I was starting out, I didn't do that-- tended to chase my losses-- and paid big time.
So this is how I do control tilt. And most often I play until I'm tired or have other things to do, and rarely hit that 5%.
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Chopper
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04-06-2007, 03:25 AM
Post subject: Re: BR for cash games?
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#10 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Local_Echo
I'm sure this post has been done to death, but I wanted some fresh input on this. I currently have about $600 on FT and I was pondering moving to cash games. Would I be properly rolled for the $25 NL games? I've heard from time to time that it's a matter of comfort, but I was just wondering if there were a few standard numbers out there that'd help me make my decision. I've played $25 NL cash games and I thought I was pretty successful at them in the past, but I just want to be sure I'm properly rolled for it if I decide to make a run at the cash games again. Thanks!
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yes. you need 20-30 buy-ins. you're fine.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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The_Bankroll
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 370
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20 buy-ins is standard, but i think there are a lot of other factors to consider.
Bankroll is all based on having a low risk of going broke (preferrably less than 1%). and a lot of calculations done are based on this (here's a handy tool for that : http://www.reviewpokerrooms.com/poke...uirements.html
So first of all you need to know your win rate/standard deviation. once you have a firm grasp on that, you can calculate what you need.
But there is one thing most people don't factor in; playing more than one limit. assuming you are disciplined enough to drop down in stakes when nessecary, you can play on a smaller bankroll. for example, you have 24 buy-ins for $25NL, but let's say then when you hit 20 buy-ins for the next lowest level, down to $10, $5, and eventually $2 if need be, you drop down to that level and play there until you have 20 buy-ins for the one above it.
$600 @ $25 NL --- 16 buy-ins before dropping stakes
$200 @ $10 NL --- 10 buy-ins before dropping stakes
$100 @ $5 NL --- 12 buy-ins before dropping stakes
$40 @ $2 NL --- 20 buy-ins before going broke.
you if you have 20 buy-ins, and you are willing to drop down, you are effectively playing on a 58 buy-in bankroll, and have a much much lower risk of ruin.
Another thing to consider is that you don't just have to play one limit. using the example above, using 20 buy ins as your marker for when to move up or down, what about when you are at $800? you are kind of over-rolled for $25 NL, but under-rolled for $50 NL. It's good to take shots at levels before you move up to them permanetly, and in the long run will probably help you move up faster. here's the system I used for moving up from $10 to $25NL, while 4-tabling:
$200: 4 tables of $10
$275: 3 tables of $10, 1 table of $25
$350: 2 tables of $10, 2 tables of $25
$425: 1 table of $10, 3 tables of $25
$500: 4 tables of $25
Bankroll requirements don't have to be a set-in-stone play $x stakes when I have y buy-ins. by being a little more fluid in your money management and game selection, it'll help you make more money in the long run.
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bantam222
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 208
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Although you have a large enough bankroll for 25NL, no bankroll is large enough if you are a losing player. Because you are moving from SNG to Ring games, you might want to start at 10NL for a while to make sure you actually can beat it and get use to it.
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Local_Echo
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 92
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Yeah, I actually figured some things out and decided to start at the $10's for now. Just so I can get adjusted to the switch in strategy.
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"Poker is a godless game, full of random pain." - Andy Bloch
"I can't watch TV longer than 5 minutes without praying for nuclear holocaust." - Bill Hicks
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Bozanic
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 37
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Everybody is different in how they handle bank rolls & comfort levels. I only play with "spare" cash presently, as I'm trying to build up my BR slowly. I play at a wide range of stakes, depending on how the cards are falling. Good & bad cards seem to run in streaks for me. So I usually start at a lower level stake & if things feel good I'll step up a table or 2. I also play better a lil bit "scared"!....LOL. I think it has to do with focus. At lower limits, I tend to get bored. If the cards are going good, step up, if they're not, quit for awhile if you start to lose focus. Seems to be working well for me so far.
Good luck!
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