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BILLABONG
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02-07-2005, 05:34 PM
Post subject: BLUFFING IN EARLY POS WITH OVERS
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 102
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I was wondering in a Nl ring or* tourney what would be the most successful way of bluffing when you are in early position to act post-flop and raised pre-flop with a hand like AK??? Do you think its more important to bluff on a certain kinda flop like all rags, or to bluff depending on what type of player your up agaisnt?
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DrumzCT
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 159
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I don't usually/ever bluff from early pos without a good read on the player im against, even with a good read, your just out of position to play a hand like that imo.
If your holding AK with rags, it's more a semi bluff drawing to you pair.
The lower limits ive found checking draws big bets where leading out with a smaller bet can get a call and see your cards cheaper, unless they raise big then you know to get out.
Once you have alittle info from the call or raise on the flop, then maybe you can push em out on the turn.
Bluffing early with no info is dangerous. Run around blind youll hit a wall.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrumzCT
I don't usually/ever bluff from early pos without a good read on the player im against, even with a good read, your just out of position to play a hand like that imo.
If your holding AK with rags, it's more a semi bluff drawing to you pair.
The lower limits ive found checking draws big bets where leading out with a smaller bet can get a call and see your cards cheaper, unless they raise big then you know to get out.
Once you have alittle info from the call or raise on the flop, then maybe you can push em out on the turn.
Bluffing early with no info is dangerous. Run around blind youll hit a wall.
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Bluffing from early position is my favorite position to bluff in...think about it you raise preflop 4-5xBB what does your opponent put you on AA KK QQ JJ Ak...So if you follow through on the flop with a bet around the pot size they can't call if they are smart unless the have improved their hand enough to beat what they think you are holding and if they think you have one of the above hands it can be fairly tough for them to make a call when you throw out a pot sized bet.
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DrumzCT
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 159
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Ok I can see that working with a preflop raise.
However, most of the people at the lower limits (25$ NLHE at party) I've found will call you down with almost any pair.
Higher limits I can see this working but I was speaking from my experience.
I will do this occasionaly when a tourny gets shorthanded but a full table someone will most likely have hit something,
I flopped top two pair AQ after I raised 5xBB preflop and got called by a guy with pocket 2's. Granted he hit his two on the river (bastard) but Id love to play that hand with him a few hundred more times.
I can see how bluffing early after a preflop raise would help, but i think depending on the players its easy to get called down.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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It is always to your advantage to be the raiser just keep that in mind.
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DrumzCT
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 159
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Well, after reading your other posts where you posted your play stats, I'll shut up and listen. 
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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I have recently come to the realization that I just must be too stupid to raise in micro NL ring game from EP with nothing and have it be profitable in the long run. It turns into just a waste of money. I check-call if the odds are there or just fold a small pot to a bet. I have run into too many people calling down with a paired kicker to their Ax/Kx who catch 2pr and take my money....
- sed
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sed
I have recently come to the realization that I just must be too stupid to raise in micro NL ring game from EP with nothing and have it be profitable in the long run. It turns into just a waste of money. I check-call if the odds are there or just fold a small pot to a bet. I have run into too many people calling down with a paired kicker to their Ax/Kx who catch 2pr and take my money....
- sed
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I know what you mean...you cant bluff a bad player...trust me I have tried many times unsucessfully!
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Playing micros is part of the (by which I mean "almost the whole") problem. It may as well be a different game entirely. You get more action than you want on every single raise.
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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Grumble grumble.
* sed looks at his measly bankroll and considers replying to one of the many emails he gets daily to enhance his self-esteem
I just gotta take down a MTT to get me up into the bigger leagues... seems to be en vogue here lately.
- sed
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aleksandr
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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Sed, I found that at the micros, do like 3 tables at once even if you know you can't handle it. It keeps your eyes off playing the retards and your eyes on playing your cards and position.
You only really need to raise in early pos (vs. calling stations) if you have something that needs protecting against alot of drawers, like a high pocket or AK or something. You can lead out weak (3/5 pot) and if they were going to fold they'll fold.
You can beat players that play bad cards by playing better cards.
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Operation Learn to Read
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aleksandr
You can beat players that play bad cards by playing better cards.
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Aye, you can... I was just making the point that I prefer to bet when I have a made hand. Sure, in late position, I'll fire out a bet to try and steal the pot. I just don't think betting into a school without a hand is a profitable play.
- sed
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DrumzCT
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 159
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Right, that's right where I was coming from.
I almost imagine I'll be able to make more money per hour when I move up in limits because the play will be smater.
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gregor
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 95
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its tricky, anyone with a brain knows that lead betting in early position is tough to do without cards, it is a very strong play.....assuming you are a card player and don't bet with the intention of giving everyone and their mother pot odds on the situation, your strong bet will likely isolate at the least.
I'd put someone on top pair if they came hard with rags (especially as a blind)...
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