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langaan
Old 03-10-2009, 02:29 PM     Post subject: Blind Stealing #1 (permalink)  
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The consensus is that the ideal steal % is around 30 in sh nl games...

However, isn't this far more relative to table selection?

For example, if we have 2 players in the blinds who are only folding 65% of the time to steals, isn't it non-profitable to steal?

from my math, it looks to me like we need to be successful from the cutoff/button about 70% of the time, and about 61% from the sb.

so if we're stealing from CU, and we expect the button to fold 90%, SB 80%, and BB 75%, isnt this a non-profitable play?
.90x.80x.75=54%

so were winning 54% of the time, when we need to be at 70?

what are the other considerations that is making cu steals profitable?

I assume cbetting, but id like some ideas to help my thought process

to me it looks as though stealing without super tight blinds is pointless, where as stealing with nits in the blinds we should be attempting almost always....

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Jason
Old 03-10-2009, 02:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Jason is an unknown quantity at this point
 I don't have anything directly to add or respond to but thought it would be appropriate to link to "Blind Stealing 101" because I was recently reading it and thought it may be a good cross reference.
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bigspenda73
Old 03-10-2009, 02:43 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 don't forget about all the times we get to a play a pot in position with the initiative against bad players.

steal at will, mine is way over 40%
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langaan
Old 03-10-2009, 02:53 PM     Post subject: . #4 (permalink)  
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how much do you steal from each of the positions? approx?

obviously we have the most chances in the cu, then but then SB...

spenda, do you completely back of stealing if you have stations in the blinds? or do you lower you steal attempts?

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bigspenda73
Old 03-10-2009, 03:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 online time I'd alter my frequencies are:

-when good competent players are in the blinds that 3bet with proper frequencies
-when I'm in the CO and the BTN is very loose
-when I'm in the SB and the BB is very loose

otherwise, fire away

perfect time to steal:

-from BTN when blinds are awful and passive
-from CO when BTN is a nit
-from CO/BTN when all players behind us are nits

This is why seat selection is more important that table selection in my mind. If we can find a seat where the players are on our left are really passive and hopefully tight it makes life much easier. We can steal the button a ton and just rape their blinds. Also, that makes the likelihood of the fish being on our right, which is nice.
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langaan
Old 03-10-2009, 03:05 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
online time I'd alter my frequencies are:

-when good competent players are in the blinds that 3bet with proper frequencies
-when I'm in the CO and the BTN is very loose
-when I'm in the SB and the BB is very loose

otherwise, fire away

perfect time to steal:

-from BTN when blinds are awful and passive
-from CO when BTN is a nit
-from CO/BTN when all players behind us are nits

This is why seat selection is more important that table selection in my mind. If we can find a seat where the players are on our left are really passive and hopefully tight it makes life much easier. We can steal the button a ton and just rape their blinds. Also, that makes the likelihood of the fish being on our right, which is nice.
i agree about teh seating.
if I could consistantly find nits to my left, fish to my right who know nothing about stealing/position, id be a happy man.


anyways,
so if you have a fish, say 40/12/1 folding BB 55% of the time, oyu will still steal under the assumption that most your cbets/post flop will be profitable with position against him?

what if, same guy, but your in the SB oop?

one last thing,
what is your 3bet freq/strat from the blinds against a typical player who steals 30%?

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bigspenda73
Old 03-10-2009, 04:26 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 already told you my thoughts on the SB spot

3betting depends more on their continuing range relative to their stealing %
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rikkerbuddy
Old 03-10-2009, 07:23 PM     Post subject: that is my weakness #8 (permalink)  

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I wish there was a class on steeling blinds - It's an art form I have not mastered yet
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Airles™
Old 03-10-2009, 11:11 PM     Post subject: Re: that is my weakness #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikkerbuddy
I wish there was a class on steeling blinds - It's an art form I have not mastered yet
Jeez, it really isnt that difficult. If you've got loose-aggressive players seated to your left, rarely attempt a blind steal. With weak-tights seated to your left, steal away with ATC. Everything in between is situational. That's pretty much it. What Spenda said up above is just about dead on.

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