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Laeelin
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08-11-2005, 04:58 AM
Post subject: Big Stack Leverage in Ring...
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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When people talk about using a big stack as leverage in a ring game, are they talking about being able to raise more and to call larger bets because of implied odds, or is it something else?
thanks
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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as a big stack people fear you because they think, and usually you will, call and raise more, not because of implied odds but because you're already up and will be more willing to lose because you're probably on a hot streak, and because you can afford a couple losses and still be up. if you're at 300BB losing 25BB is more or less nothing compared to being at 100BB.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greedo017
as a big stack people fear you because they think, and usually you will, call and raise more, not because of implied odds but because you're already up and will be more willing to lose because you're probably on a hot streak, and because you can afford a couple losses and still be up. if you're at 300BB losing 25BB is more or less nothing compared to being at 100BB.
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So basically, using stack leverage is playing badly because your doing good and dont mind loseing $50 on a hand because your already up $150??
At least from what I understand of what your saying, it's -EV...
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
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well, i don't think its -EV. you're playing off of people's fear of your stack. they see your big stack, and figure you are a saavy player, and fear that you will be more willing to call and be aggressive and have a good hand than the average person. its more about using their fear of your stack to your advantage, than you actually changing your play, even though IMO that does happen a little bit too.
Keep in mind too, this is just my opinion on it, i'm sure everyone thinks big stacks have different benefits and penalties.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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and the more i think about it, implied odds are a little bit of leverage, i didn't mean to totally write it off, but just I don't feel like they're what most people are talking about when they talk about big stack leverage.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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unless you're at a tight table, bullying works against you, but calling a raise with some meddling hand is sometimes good on a "rush".
players are more likely to pay you off if you've been winning big, it's paradoxical.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
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when i'm deep stacked, i only bully the tiniest bit, but everyone assumes i'm this lag monster who buys every decent pot. that's what i use to my advantage.
the other night i was deep stacked at 100NL. i checked k7 in the BB, flop comes king high. i check the flop, bet like 2bb on the turn, and bet like 3 bb on the river oop. one guy CALLS me down and shows pocket aces, and another guy then calls me an idiot and jumps on me and says i win my money through luck and i suck and and starts yelling at me to learn how to fold hands... meanwhile i'm probably playing ~17% of my hands. when you're deep stacked, a lot of people totally ignore what you're actually doing, and try to focus on the fact that you are obviously buying pots and playing too aggressively and make it their mission to expose you.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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If you have a small/average stack, and you flop (say) TPTK, and your only opponent is a big stacked aggressive player, then you know that you might well be forced all-in by them, and that makes you wonder whether you're willing to risk what is, for you, such a big move with a hand that could be beaten.
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Laeelin
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,137
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Personally, I always rebuy if I drop below the buyin so that I can get themost out of my implied odds...
I think understand now... It's a table image thing =)
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Last night at my table there were two big stacks when I sat down. One guy was gambling/raising/buying pots while the other big stack was playing tight.
After an hour, the Buying Guy was down to about 3 buy-ins, and the Tight Guy was up to almost 5 buy-ins.
I'm not saying one hour is a fair sample set. I'm just saying you don't have to become a bully just because you have a big stack. Everyone's looking for a hand to break the bully. But everyone's really afraid of the tight guy. When Tight-Big comes in, everyone knows they better have a real hand.
I try to stay tight when I have a stack. But if you should get 3 good hands in a row, you're going to get paid off on the third because everyone thinks you bullying.
EasyT
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Big stack is an advantage in most situations.
I use it to play more laggy. I call more rasies with marginal hands say T9 or T8 more gappers, suited connectors etc.
Not to say i dont do this normally, its just that you can afford to get in more pots with mrginal hands if your a big stack (conversly you can also raise with these types of hands too!) therefore when you hit, and it seems like you didnt or the other guy tries to buy a pot your winning still and can make appropriate plays or even get paid big style.
For me the big stack allows you more scope to get in more pots where you normally might not. Whether this subsequently makes me more laggy, i dont know but my flops seen % goes up 10% when im big stack at a table.
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thenatural
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hell
Posts: 2
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Laeelin
Personally, I always rebuy if I drop below the buyin so that I can get themost out of my implied odds...
I think understand now... It's a table image thing =)
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Thats the key...if you have a larger stack, you can afford to get the most out of the chips. If you have 20 chips...and you double up through a guy that has say 100...you have 40...where he could put you out of the game and if he loses, he still ahead of you. I dont think its a question of "bad play" really.
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EurekaKid
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Anytime you play with a big stack your opponents will always be worried when playing a hand with you that you are going tos et them all-in particularly if you are an agressive player.
Also with a larger stack opponents believe that you are a looser player or more likely to bluff, which is great. Often a play i like to make against a short stack is all-in on the flop when I hit and i have raised before the flop. Gives them the impression that I am pushing them around and often they call with inferior hands.
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