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MNMP2
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05-23-2005, 08:56 PM
Post subject: Betting at pots in low-limit games
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 156
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New to this board. I have been reading posts here for about a week and now I'm registered. This board is helping me alot with my game. I have noticed my ring game performance has jumped considerably as I've been learning how to play smart (I think) aggressive.
Here is my question:
I have noticed in low level (I am playing .10/.20 NLHE) that when I raise preflop, and then represent or semi-bluff on the flop, that I still get 1 or 2 callers. I almost always have to make 1/2 to pot sized bets on both the turn AND the river before the caller will fold the hand.
It's always good to win pots, but I don't want to be winning hands "improperly". By this I mean I dont want to build habits that will get me killed as I move up to higher limits as my bankroll grows. Most of the advice here seems to be that I should be checking after I am called. But if I can push people off the pot with marginal hands, should I keep doing it?
Love the forum here! I hope to really get my game going and learn as much as possible from the experts here. Thanks.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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if you cant get them to fold on the flop or turn, you should give up and check/fold .. i used to drain alot of money trying to bluff someone at the river
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Surf_Thug
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 215
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I will answer your question on one condition...
You let me stay at your house, and use your car when I come to vegas..
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Currently Playing 8 Tables of 25NL 10-Max.
Or
2 Tables of 100NL 10-Max
Current Bankroll: $625
Goal: To stop pulling $$$ out of my bankroll and build it up to 1k.
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MNMP2
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 156
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Surf_Thug:
Well.......
OK, but I draw the line at my wife.
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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Element is right, I used to do the same thing, keep pushing and pushing until they fold, but it ended up costing me too much. Your reads will make all the difference here, as well as position. Make your continuation bet on the flop a little bigger. Occassionally check the turn (this one was tough for me, cause I feel like I'm giving up control, but trust me, it's not so bad every now and then) If you check the turn and they check behind, that is a big sign of weakness, you can fire again at the river. Or if you are in position and they're checking to you, keep firing away, but maybe less if you fear they have a hand. When you have a made hand, maybe check the turn anyway (against a player that will try to steal when you show weakness), then call him down, or check raise him. But basically, if you're called to the river (and you've missed everything), either make a smaller (but still effective) bet, or go ahead and check. It will save you money in the long run.
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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MNMP2
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 156
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So I think from what you are saying, is that if I have position, and he is checking to me and I think he is just drawing (like holdin Ax and hoping for an A), then I can keep pushing? But if I am first to act here I need to back off after making a bigger post flop bet. Would that post flop bet be at least pot sized or maybe even an overbet then?
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MNMP2
So I think from what you are saying, is that if I have position, and he is checking to me and I think he is just drawing (like holdin Ax and hoping for an A), then I can keep pushing? But if I am first to act here I need to back off after making a bigger post flop bet. Would that post flop bet be at least pot sized or maybe even an overbet then?
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Answer: It depends. Beware of traps. (All about reads once again) And the board, too many different kinds of scenarios for a cut and dry answer (I'm sure you know this...) But for the most part yes. Position is HUGE in this type of situation.
But as far as the flop bet goes, I make mine very close to pot sized. That way I know who really has a piece, then you can try putting them on a hand.
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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FishMagician
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 206
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If they call everything, just wait till you make a hand and make them pay.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by storm75m
Element is right, I used to do the same thing, keep pushing and pushing until they fold, but it ended up costing me too much. Your reads will make all the difference here, as well as position. Make your continuation bet on the flop a little bigger. Occassionally check the turn (this one was tough for me, cause I feel like I'm giving up control, but trust me, it's not so bad every now and then) If you check the turn and they check behind, that is a big sign of weakness, you can fire again at the river. Or if you are in position and they're checking to you, keep firing away, but maybe less if you fear they have a hand. When you have a made hand, maybe check the turn anyway (against a player that will try to steal when you show weakness), then call him down, or check raise him. But basically, if you're called to the river (and you've missed everything), either make a smaller (but still effective) bet, or go ahead and check. It will save you money in the long run.
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if they call your continuation bet, im more willing to check behind and get the free card, if it helps me, it induces an automatic bluff from villian and i can call or reraise him.. if it misses me, no big deal, fold and move on.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MNMP2
So I think from what you are saying, is that if I have position, and he is checking to me and I think he is just drawing (like holdin Ax and hoping for an A), then I can keep pushing? But if I am first to act here I need to back off after making a bigger post flop bet. Would that post flop bet be at least pot sized or maybe even an overbet then?
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you should wait until you have a lock on the hand or near nuts before pushing ... a big raise should be sufficient, but if its push all in back on you.. you really have to start considering your hand strength compared to how he played so far and what the board looks like.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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SinkRox
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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one thing... you mentioned you get one or two callers to your continuation bets pre-flop - this suggests you're not isolating the field enough - you need to aim to get to heads up post flop. sometimes a pre-flop 3x BB raise isnt enough, especially at 20 or 25 nl games, you're probably better off opening the betting at $1 - or more if theres limpers before you that you need to thin out (maybe 1.60 for two limpers infront of you).
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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If you raise pre-flop do you ALWAYS continue with a 1/2 pot bet or more? If you want your continuation bet to stay potent, you have to check/fold sometimes when you miss.
At least that's what I do. (As always, I'll take criticism on this).
EasyT
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
If you raise pre-flop do you ALWAYS continue with a 1/2 pot bet or more? If you want your continuation bet to stay potent, you have to check/fold sometimes when you miss.
At least that's what I do. (As always, I'll take criticism on this).
EasyT
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i always throw my continuation bet out if i raised preflop, more often then not, your getting people to fold.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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a500lbgorilla
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05-24-2005, 04:55 PM
Post subject: Re: Betting at pots in low-limit games
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#14 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MNMP2
New to this board. I have been reading posts here for about a week and now I'm registered. This board is helping me alot with my game. I have noticed my ring game performance has jumped considerably as I've been learning how to play smart (I think) aggressive.
Here is my question:
I have noticed in low level (I am playing .10/.20 NLHE) that when I raise preflop, and then represent or semi-bluff on the flop, that I still get 1 or 2 callers. I almost always have to make 1/2 to pot sized bets on both the turn AND the river before the caller will fold the hand.
It's always good to win pots, but I don't want to be winning hands "improperly". By this I mean I dont want to build habits that will get me killed as I move up to higher limits as my bankroll grows. Most of the advice here seems to be that I should be checking after I am called. But if I can push people off the pot with marginal hands, should I keep doing it?
Love the forum here! I hope to really get my game going and learn as much as possible from the experts here. Thanks.
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I will always make a continuation bet when I raise preflop if I get the chance. If we make it to the turn, I do a lot of reevaluation.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Roaddoggjc
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
If you raise pre-flop do you ALWAYS continue with a 1/2 pot bet or more? If you want your continuation bet to stay potent, you have to check/fold sometimes when you miss.
At least that's what I do. (As always, I'll take criticism on this).
EasyT
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i always throw my continuation bet out if i raised preflop, more often then not, your getting people to fold. |
I would think this would hurt you. Opponents will recognize that you are ALWAYS betting after a raise, and they will start to reraise you....this leaves you in a tough situation because you dont know if they are bluffing based on their read on you, or if they really have a hand....doesnt this happen to you? And how do you play it
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roaddoggjc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
If you raise pre-flop do you ALWAYS continue with a 1/2 pot bet or more? If you want your continuation bet to stay potent, you have to check/fold sometimes when you miss.
At least that's what I do. (As always, I'll take criticism on this).
EasyT
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i always throw my continuation bet out if i raised preflop, more often then not, your getting people to fold. |
I would think this would hurt you. Opponents will recognize that you are ALWAYS betting after a raise, and they will start to reraise you....this leaves you in a tough situation because you dont know if they are bluffing based on their read on you, or if they really have a hand....doesnt this happen to you? And how do you play it |
depending on position/reads, i'll call or fold... at this point it varies on the situation.. i'll give him credit if i have no pair no draw and lay it down. if he is continously trying to push me off the pot, i might reraise him again 3x his raise and see what he does, if he's just trying to push me off my ace high with his ace high, he would be an idiot to call or raise in this situation.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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