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pokerroomace
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11-30-2006, 04:25 PM
Post subject: beting/checking flush draw
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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what's the best way to play a flush draw in general?
is betting the flush draw 1/2 to 3/4 pot the best idea with the idea of taking down the pot now/building up a pot if you hit.
or is it a better idea to check it. with the idea of keeping as many players in as you can and then betting when you hit it.
obviously poker is very situational and this question is very vague. but can someone(s) try and give an answer and say in which situation each option is a better idea
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Betting is usually better than calling. Flush draws are obvious when they complete which kills your action. Also, there are a lot of bad players that won't put you on a flush if you're betting it, while a check/call, hit your draw/bet line is transparent as hell to even the lowest bottom feeding fish.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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when stacks are deep betting is almost always better
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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I HATE check-calling with a flushdraw. I almost always make a standard c-bet with a flushdraw, or a very heavy check-raise if I've got ~12 outs or more.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
a very heavy check-raise if I've got ~12 outs or more.
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I play short-handed and don't make this play as often as I used to.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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ya, check/calling with fd's is usually not going to get you paid. if the pot is multiway though then you can get away with it much more with the nut draw since others could very well be drawing to the flush too.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
a very heavy check-raise if I've got ~12 outs or more.
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I play short-handed and don't make this play as often as I used to. |
are you saying this is bad and you don't like it or are you saying that you should start doing this again?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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People like to make loose calls of over-bets on two-tone boards.
Against terrible players it's bad because they're not likely to blow you off the pot on the turn and they will pay off when you hit.
Against tight players, their bet/raise ranges can be tight enought that your'e running into a hand too often (see first point.) Also, many of these guys will price you in.
I mostly like playing draws really fast against guys who are capable of betting/raising light and folding to aggression. Most people like that are playing at least 200NL.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
a very heavy check-raise if I've got ~12 outs or more.
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I play short-handed and don't make this play as often as I used to. |
I don't like this so much with a draw b/c once they've bet they tend to call and leading builds the pot but keeps it under control if they're calling. That said, I'll do it against an aggrodonk for shits and giggles.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I often fold OOP with a flush draw on the turn unless I have pair outs, it stays multiway passive with odds, or special circumstances exist such as I recently pushed the villain off a pot on a make board. I could care less about isolation with a made hand that has no implied/pot odds against competent villains. So dumb.
You can't play selective aggressive, and then turn into mr passive prayers through two streets on draws while paying a bad price. It makes your hand transparent.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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I play NL10 on pokerstars so I don't know how this applies to higher stakes. If the pot is mutliway, try to get as much money in as possible. If this means check calling, it is OK. If the pot is heads up, play your draw aggressively. What do others think about that?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dave Davis
I play NL10 on pokerstars so I don't know how this applies to higher stakes. If the pot is mutliway, try to get as much money in as possible. If this means check calling, it is OK. If the pot is heads up, play your draw aggressively. What do others think about that? |
Disagree. Being a person that started at penny tables, I can tell you that two things are happening when you play a draw aggressively at that level...
1. You have very little fold equity
2. You have decent implied odds if you hit
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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Sorry, don't fully understand this. So you say I should check call even at heads up situation or that I should play aggressively even at the multiway pot?
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badape
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dave Davis
Sorry, don't fully understand this. So you say I should check call even at heads up situation or that I should play aggressively even at the multiway pot?
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Multiway pot you should usually check-call because more hands are involved and the person with tp on the flop might need to bet another on the turn to figure out where he's at, and even then there will be players calling with straight draw/two pair on the turn so you'll get alot more action(check-raise about the size of the pot or bet 3/4 of the pot if your first to act)
Heads up/3 way u will want to bet 1/2 to 3/4 of the pot if you have 9 outs or more(overcards + flush draw or gut shot straight+flush draw or just flush draw) That way you can take control of the betting and force players to fold TPLK to you when a rag comes on the turn and u bet on the turn. River comes if u hit u will want to make a value bet or an overbet depending on the situation because most likely your opponents will call u down, if you don't hit u can simply check the river or if your certain your opponents will fold you can go ahead and try to steal the pot.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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Badape, that is kind of same as I said. To play more passively in multiway pot (or check raise if that means you will get more money in the pot and the bettor won't raise you - you don't want to lose customers - if someone is drawing to the lower flush than you - let him, that is my point) and more aggressively in heads up. Rondavu just seems to disagree with this.
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