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dalecooper
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02-02-2005, 04:53 PM
Post subject: Bet the flopped straight?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Scenario: you hold QJo in middle position and limped in with a few other players. Flop comes AKT, and the two high cards are both hearts.
Bet here, and if so how much?
Considerations: the straight is the current nuts. You're only really worried about flush draws. The probability of any set is low, since there was no pre-flop raise at all.
In this actual hand, I bet just under the size of the pot, and everyone folded.
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elanto
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,117
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It all depends on the read i have on the table..
-anto
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<dwarfman> No I had sex for the first time on 23rd March 2005 at 11.56pm.
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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risk vs reward... if you think that someone at the table might pay you off if they hit something other than a flush it is correct to check or minbet to get them sucked in for a turn check/raise or a river push. The pot was small at that point, 4 bbs? 2/3 of the time your strt will hold up. If it were a raised pot, I'd throw out a pot-sized bet. I think that 33% risk of losing 4 BBs is worth the reward of someone catching a second best hand to yours and paying you off.
- sed
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Fortune 500
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bluffalupagus
Posts: 1,261
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Depends on the preflop raising. That's the kinda flop that can lead to a lot of trips. Trips aren't bad in and of themselves, but if the board pairs, of course, you might be in trouble. If it limped around PF, you're probably okay to slowplay here, but I actually like the idea of raising about 1/2 pot just to see if anyone else likes their hand. The other thing you've got to worry slightly about is straight daws. Let's say The next card off is a J. Now, you're splitting your pot with any queen. Thus I don't really like slowplaying the straight on this board. You want to raise a little on the Flop here just to get a feel for where other people are in the hand, and then proceed accordingly.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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The pot was small, 4BB I think, minus rake. I actually expected one call or so to my bet - even though it was pot-sized, the pot was small enough that it didn't seem like an over-aggressive bet to me. I would guess that no one was on the flush draw and no one had TPGK, so that's why they ran. I will say though that the table was kind of tight ($50 buy-in NL on Party) so perhaps I should have bet less, maybe half the pot instead of 3/4.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fortune 500
Depends on the preflop raising. That's the kinda flop that can lead to a lot of trips. Trips aren't bad in and of themselves, but if the board pairs, of course, you might be in trouble. If it limped around PF, you're probably okay to slowplay here, but I actually like the idea of raising about 1/2 pot just to see if anyone else likes their hand. The other thing you've got to worry slightly about is straight daws. Let's say The next card off is a J. Now, you're splitting your pot with any queen. Thus I don't really like slowplaying the straight on this board. You want to raise a little on the Flop here just to get a feel for where other people are in the hand, and then proceed accordingly.
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Agreed... with the board being all high cards and two suiteds, there was zero chance I would check it or completely slowplay. The only question in my mind is how much is the right bet to chase out the really weak hands, but still keep someone interested who might have a second best hand (pair of aces, pair of kings).
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rdqlus
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 64
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If there were pre-flop raises/callers you're likely golden. There will be people with 2 pair and probably trips waiting to pay you off and probably betting into you. (I've had that flop with pocket Aces and paid off the made straight before).
If everyone limped then you need to protect your hand just like any other. Fish will still chase the flush - make them pay to do it.
mj
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Depends on the straight. A broadway straight is a lot better than, say a straight to the J with your hole cards being 98. You can slowplay a broadway more easily since it is not as easily counterfeited, and even if it is you'll still split the pot.
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This is an interesting one. Betting and slowplay would BOTH be the right play. It just depends how much risk you are willing to take.
You have the nuts at this point, but the 2 hearts and high cards could easily land someone a flush or trips/boat. So you CAN risk slowplaying (and it could pay off), you also CAN bet it and possibly take it down right on the flop.
This is where your style of play really comes into the game and not more mechanical betting.
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montimus
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 154
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I like min-betting situations like this.
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anarres
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 17
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I would tend to bet enough to push out flush draws but keep in the Ax and 2 pair. If somone has a full house draw you're a little unlucky, but you can often tell those hands pre-flop with most people.
If you're in a pot with > 5 people I wouldn't check it. With so many callers in online poker someone will have a flush draw, and when the 3rd heart or paired board comes out it gets much more dangerous...
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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Bet the pot and hope for callers. If someone hit an A they will call, if they hit two pair (or possibly trip T's) they will raise. You can't get beat by a better straight, and don't want flush draws sucking out. You can't min bet here, or even 1/2 pot bet.
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Tottenham
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 18
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack
Bet the pot and hope for callers. If someone hit an A they will call
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Just out of curiousity, if you had an ace plus a low card, say 2 through 6, would you call a pot-sized bet on the flop? Im not sure I would....
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tottenham
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlyingSaucerAttack
Bet the pot and hope for callers. If someone hit an A they will call
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Just out of curiousity, if you had an ace plus a low card, say 2 through 6, would you call a pot-sized bet on the flop? Im not sure I would.... |
I would not, and most good players would not, but a lot of fish would. And anyone with ace/decent (A8, A9) would probably call, although a lot of them should be folding as well.
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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That's true, you're talking about a 4-way unraised pot. Chances are most players are scared of that flop and looking for any reason to get out.
I guess my advice is coming from my experience of playing micros. Probably would not work as well at higher levels.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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When you flop a royal straight in a limped pot, there's probably no way to make much money, since it's unlikely anyone has anything at all, except perhaps top pair with a weak kicker or a very unlikely two pair. I would probably check and hope someone tries to steal from late position and raise the size of the pot. If no one tries to steal, bet the pot on the next card no matter what it is.
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Shatner8
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5
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I was in this exact situation before actually, but held Ace Jack off suit in my hand with the flop being Kc, Qd, 10c. After the flop i bet the pot, and was called. Turn comes 3h, I check, he raises, i re-raise all-in, he calls, with a nut flush draw clubs, flop comes 3c, and I go down. Was heated that he would make that call on a draw, and more pissed that he actually caught the club. Anything i could've done better in this situation, or was I just unlucky?
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shatner8
I was in this exact situation before actually, but held Ace Jack off suit in my hand with the flop being Kc, Qd, 10c. After the flop i bet the pot, and was called. Turn comes 3h, I check, he raises, i re-raise all-in, he calls, with a nut flush draw clubs, flop comes 3c, and I go down. Was heated that he would make that call on a draw, and more pissed that he actually caught the club. Anything i could've done better in this situation, or was I just unlucky?
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You were unlucky. You played it well - you gave him bad pot odds for his money and got more cash in the pot than I managed to, but he sucked out on you. It happens. Some people are incorrigible flush-chasers and don't understand why it's a bad idea to call those bets.
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aleksandr
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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Betting the pot here is solid. You also might try overbetting to make it look like you hit Ax and want to buy it, or underbetting as mentioned above to draw in more callers, but the pot bet makes you a bit more $$$ off a caller and gives you a bit more info to their hand. You want to look aggressive like you have a vulnerable hand to protect.
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