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littleogre
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12-06-2005, 10:12 AM
Post subject: best way to play middle pairs in a low level nl game?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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By low level i mean the penn levels. 5c/10c and lower. Ok raising 4x the bb doesn't seem to work. I always get 3 or 4 callers and am faced with over cards on the flop. Sure sometimes i hit a set but when you factor in suckouts the sets that do hit are not makeing enough money. I literally have go all in to get any respect and even then i usually get call by any paint or suited cards.
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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Limp with middle pairs for a set... play it fast and get all your money in on the flop if they will let you.
At those limits, I don't push too hard trying to take more than one player off of overcards with an overpair un-improved. In their mind you are bluffing and they have two pretty looking high cards which deserve to beat you.
- sed
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No fear, go deep or go home!
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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This is a problem that I am facing as well. I'd really like to hear a lot of feedback on this topic.
I'm not sure as to where to draw the line on limping. Do I raise with 99, or do I limp with them? How does position and remaining players factor in? what size of bet or reaction to a bet should I give if I hit a set?
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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R-A-I-S-E
Find out what it means to me
R-A-I-S-E
Take care, SHIP-IT
Oh (sock it to me, sock it to me,
sock it to me, sock it to me)
A little raise (sock it to me, sock it to me,
sock it to me, sock it to me)
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TalentedTom
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
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Mr.Fnord is right - RAISE
When you raise 4x you get too many callers.... simple solution raise MORE, the looser the table the higher you are allowed to raise.
When I played the 0.05/0.1 c tables i used to raise between 5-10xBB preflop with my good hands (AQ+, 88+)
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Tom.S
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I think it's harder to get paid off when raising PPs preflop. If you bet with 44 and the flop comes out AK4, then you bet. People calling with AT or KJ or Axs may fold because those high cards can scare them. If you limp and bet, they don't tend to believe you and you can cash in easier. That's what I noticed. The only times I raise preflop is if the table continually folds to my preflop raises and I keep collecting blinds with AA/KK/QQ. But if the table is loose, then I'll limp to hide value.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok lets say you have 88 in a 5c/10c game. You raise 25c and get 1 caller. The flop has 1 over cards and they are first to act and bet. Do you fold call or raise ?
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Well, if you are going to raise (regardless of hand) you need to make it bet at least 4xbb (40c). I prefer 6xbb. In the situation you describe above - a read is important here. Do they always make a bet when they raise preflop? If so, reraise to see if they really hit. The bet size matters too.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
Well, if you are going to raise (regardless of hand) you need to make it bet at least 4xbb (40c). I prefer 6xbb. In the situation you describe above - a read is important here. Do they always make a bet when they raise preflop? If so, reraise to see if they really hit. The bet size matters too.
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ty
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
I think it's harder to get paid off when raising PPs preflop.
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No. Semi-aware opponents won't go broke easy in an unraised pot.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Why raise when you cant rep the high cards against calling stations and they''ll give you their stack anyway then their AJ hits an A and your 99 hits a 9.
I'm with Sed.
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{This post has been removed}
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
I think it's harder to get paid off when raising PPs preflop.
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No. Semi-aware opponents won't go broke easy in an unraised pot. |
I think it depends on the limit and how you play ALL your hands. I know raising PPs works for you at your limit based on your overall game. You are constantly manipulating pots with aggression. I'm not sure if 10NL players think this way - at least the majority play how sed mentioned. Even at 25NL, more than half the table sees they have TPTK and will put their money in to the end.
Like I mentioned before, I raise them up when my real hands aren't getting action. I mix it up here and there too.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
A little raise (sock it to me, sock it to me,
sock it to me, sock it to me)
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100NL
4 limpers to me and I kick it up a notch to $3 with 77.
Folded to BB who kicks it up to $5. All-call.
Flop missed me horribly, but I felt I got my monies' worth.
BB had JJ. God bless the fish!
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lowBoy
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
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If you put in a 6xBB raise with 22-99 and get called, what are you going to do when a face card flops? 70% of the time, you'll have at least one A-J on the flop (although 12% of those will make a set for you and you're gold). It makes you unsure of your hand - what if you get bet into? What if you hold 99 and rep the Q on a non-drawing flop of Q72 and get called? You can still nake money in these situations, but it's dicier.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Why jam the pot so much? I'm mostly just looking to build things up so I can get passive players stuck playing for stacks when I want to go there. They start calling me and then it's like WHOOPS, dude where's my stack?
Second, if I miss, then I'm playing a bust hand and/or taking a freebie. NLHE isn't a showdown game.
...and when we get back.... ANOTHER NOTCH!
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
I think it's harder to get paid off when raising PPs preflop. If you bet with 44 and the flop comes out AK4, then you bet. People calling with AT or KJ or Axs may fold because those high cards can scare them. If you limp and bet, they don't tend to believe you and you can cash in easier. That's what I noticed. The only times I raise preflop is if the table continually folds to my preflop raises and I keep collecting blinds with AA/KK/QQ. But if the table is loose, then I'll limp to hide value.
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That's sometimes the case, at least at higher limits. At 10 NL people will often call you down with a weaker ace. The problem with just limping with small pairs all the time is that you can get destacked if you don't turn your set into a boat. People love to play suited one gappers and cards than can hit a disguised straight.
With a rocky image I might be more inclined to limp, but my image is generally LAG and I'll often raise in position with small pairs. My image enables me to get paid off when I hit my set. In a multiway pot most players will play very cautiously figuring that with all these players in the pot somebody has to have them beat. If you have a loose image, raise PF with 44 and the flop comes T74, you will get action from weaker hands figuring that you are just trying to buy the pot or that you have a weak hand.
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