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Flarb89
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04-29-2007, 07:50 AM
Post subject: Best approach to allin every hand?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
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Ok, heres a screen shot of the situation that I have a couple questions about.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8873/allinmb1.jpg
This guy has been going all in on every single hand since he got to the table. He's gone from .80$ to as you see, near 60$ in about 10 minutes or so.
I was trying my best to get some of his money, but I ended up losing around 15$, 10$ of which I had worked hard for 1.5 hours earning slowly at these horrible stakes.
Given my bankroll of roughly 50$ (which is now 35$) what would have been the best approach to this? Of course, every time I got all in I was ahead, that just doesn't seem to be the correct decision given the circumstances. I would like to know what I should have done to extract the most money from this guy in case this happens again. Also, take into consideration that this goldmine could leave at any given moment, I can't just sit here and wait for aces like I could do if he stayed here all day, I need to get some of it before he leaves, but within a reasonable time frame.
Apparently it isn't too uncommon to see a high stakes player jump down here and do this, as it can give you a good laugh like I'm sure he had, having like 30 buy ins at the table (2$NL) and sucking out on every player that called him. What you guys think?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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zOMG how was this not Lukie?
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Ghandii
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 79
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If I can be sure of it being a 2 way bot, I'll call this type of wnker with any half decent cards; 66+/AT+. Otherwise I just sit out till he leaves or starts playing properly or I'll just leave the table.
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
zOMG how was this not Lukie?
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lol
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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Legendash
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Full House
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crypto 6max 100NL
Posts: 611
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I think because he has your stack size so dominated it will be hard for you to take a lot of his money. It's like in a heads up game when one player almsot busts out and the other player has 95% of the chips, unless the short stack gets extremely lucky he will get busted, even if he doubles up 2 or 3 times he'll still go broke soon.
If he had the same stack size as you you could probably call with every single hand. However with the discrepancy you need reasonable cards and a slice of luck to take a meaningful amount off him. It's high variance and your bankroll is only just large enough to take a bad run so you're probably going to have to wait for good cards.
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"[This theory] is only useful for helping to calculate your luck odds. If you have a good read that you have a numerical advantage against your opponent, that your hand is "luckier"..."
Copyright, Youngdro 2007.
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The Odds God
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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I actually love to play against these guys. It is easy money. When the money goes in, you are usually ahead if you play 99+, AT+. But you need a bankroll to do so. But I love those guys. They are just giving money away. If someone has already called in front of you, you need QQ or better, maybe JJ.
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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drtofu66
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04-29-2007, 06:31 PM
Post subject: Re: Best approach to allin every hand?
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#7 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Flarb89
Of course, every time I got all in I was ahead, that just doesn't seem to be the correct decision given the circumstances.
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When is it not correct to get all of your money in when you're ahead?
To your original question, it depends on what he's been doing this with (surely he's being called by someone fairly often and you're seeing some of his holecards if he's up to $60, right?). If he's truly been shoving with EVERY hand, J9s is 55% to win vs a random hand. If you don't like those odds, wait for better. If he's up this much having shoved with J4o and other crap and just getting ultra lucky, pretty much wait for AQ+, 99+ and go in with him. There's no guaranteed way to get all of his money and you'll probably lose a few to him, but that's what happens when you play 2 card bingo.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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The easiest/best way? Get the entire table to call him every hand and be willing to re-buy as many times as it takes to nuke him. If every player is playing 2 card bingo, He can, and will go on a long enough losing streak so as to lose all of the money he's made.
The easiest/best way to do it by yourself? I don't know.... I think the above posts have much more clarity than I do about this situation.
The best way to handle the situation? Move to another table and get away from this sucker. Move up in stakes, 1 penny / 2 penny is ridiculous for variance.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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I play at the same stakes and had a guy like this at my table a while ago, he would just shove whenever someone raised, then someone berated him for overbetting so he shoved every hand.
Basically if you don't feel comfortable gambling your whole stack every time you want to play a hand then moving tables is a good idea (or just fire up another one and wait for a monster until he leaves). However if you don't mind the chance that you may lose some, i'd be happy calling with any decent Ace or pair.
PS of course the guy who was berating him called ahead and got stacked, as is the way...
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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gingerwizard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,815
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Pick a hand that puts you ahead of his range.
Call with it (if you can be sure you are heads up), and continue taking these lovely +EV situations forever.
To those who suggest moving to another table: WTF! As a player you are looking for +EV situations. Here is a total cash cow willing to put his stack against yours when he is behind. BOOM
The only reason for moving is if you are underrolled. Then again that is also a reason for not playing at all.....
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghandii
I'll call this type of wnker with any half decent cards; 44+/A3+/K9+/QT+.
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Folding a hand like KQ or A8 to one of these guys is a pretty big leak. You do have to be more cautious depending on the number of people still to act because one of them might wake up with a hand.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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Please repost your screen shot without the names scribbled out.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gingerwizard
Pick a hand that puts you ahead of his range.
To those who suggest moving to another table: WTF! As a player you are looking for +EV situations. Here is a total cash cow willing to put his stack against yours when he is behind. BOOM
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Wait a minute, lets say you take those + EV situations all day. Any PP, and any good ace. Any 2 wheelhouse cards. Most of the situations you get in to. You'll only be a 2-1 favorite. Sure you'll double up. But being a 2-1 favorite, means that you'll lose 1 hand out of every three. Since he's such an amazingly huge favorite, and has a monster stack size, you get taken right back down to zero once every 3 hands...
You still have to go on a lucky streak in order to take all his money, because when you win, you barely dent him. When he wins he stacks you, and takes all his money back.
If you tighten way up and wait or any PP, you're still usually only a 4-1 favorite. Meaning your 2 dollar buy in, STILL can't really threaten him when you're only going to double up 4 times before you lose your entire stack to him, and have to start over. 2, 4, 8, 16, stacked.
If he's on a lucky rush, fear it, and get away from it. Even Pro's fear, respect, and play the rush.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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Lithium
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gingerwizard
Pick a hand that puts you ahead of his range.
To those who suggest moving to another table: WTF! As a player you are looking for +EV situations. Here is a total cash cow willing to put his stack against yours when he is behind. BOOM
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Wait a minute, lets say you take those + EV situations all day. Any PP, and any good ace. Any 2 wheelhouse cards. Most of the situations you get in to. You'll only be a 2-1 favorite. Sure you'll double up. But being a 2-1 favorite, means that you'll lose 1 hand out of every three. Since he's such an amazingly huge favorite, and has a monster stack size, you get taken right back down to zero once every 3 hands...
You still have to go on a lucky streak in order to take all his money, because when you win, you barely dent him. When he wins he stacks you, and takes all his money back.
If you tighten way up and wait or any PP, you're still usually only a 4-1 favorite. Meaning your 2 dollar buy in, STILL can't really threaten him when you're only going to double up 4 times before you lose your entire stack to him, and have to start over. 2, 4, 8, 16, stacked.
If he's on a lucky rush, fear it, and get away from it. Even Pro's fear, respect, and play the rush. |
This advice means you should never play, because you are at best only ever a 4-1 favorite preflop. This reminds me of the saying, "scared money is dead money."
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Wait a minute, lets say you take those + EV situations all day. Any PP, and any good ace. Any 2 wheelhouse cards. Most of the situations you get in to. You'll only be a 2-1 favorite. Sure you'll double up. But being a 2-1 favorite, means that you'll lose 1 hand out of every three. Since he's such an amazingly huge favorite, and has a monster stack size, you get taken right back down to zero once every 3 hands...
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Ummm...you're getting even money on your bet but you're a 2:1 favourite, the only reason why you wouldn't take this bet EVERY TIME is if you don't have a sufficient BR.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
You still have to go on a lucky streak in order to take all his money, because when you win, you barely dent him. When he wins he stacks you, and takes all his money back.
If you tighten way up and wait or any PP, you're still usually only a 4-1 favorite. Meaning your 2 dollar buy in, STILL can't really threaten him when you're only going to double up 4 times before you lose your entire stack to him, and have to start over. 2, 4, 8, 16, stacked.
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This doesn't make any sense. As I said, whether you have $1 or $1000 on the table, if you're getting better than even money you have to call.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
If he's on a lucky rush, fear it, and get away from it. Even Pro's fear, respect, and play the rush.
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Ummm...no. This is like saying somebody flips 10 heads in a row, so their chance of flipping an 11th head is other than 50/50.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
If he's on a lucky rush, fear it, and get away from it. Even Pro's fear, respect, and play the rush.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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Be very very happy this guy is at your table.
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"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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If I'm tilting after bubbling 10 SNGs in a row I have been known to find a likely 5NL table and go AI every hand too. The last time I did this I ended up $50, mostly because after the 9th AI, I picked up AA, 5 people called and my hand held up.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I will take 2-1 on a coinflip every day, especially when our stacks are close. Don't get me wrong.
The problem is, if you lose, you can only buy in for 1/15th of his stack. Not enough to consistently threaten him.
Ken Warren, John Vorhaus, and Jay Greenspan go through the same logic in their writings. This is the internet. There's got to be a better situation out there, like a bunch of guys who call oversized bets with terrible hands, and then fold the river when they don't catch a monster, and are transparent when they catch.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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gingerwizard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,815
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No.
You double up twice at his expense: You now have $8.
You have AJs and he goes all in again. You have to call $8 to win $16 + change from the blinds and you are miles ahead of his range. This decision is independent of any previous stackings my friend. It's a purely math call and it's not even close. The guys risk of ruin is through the roof, he won't have a big stack forever. Make sure you get your slice, and collect those slansky $$ when you lose favourable situations.
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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