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eragotte
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12-23-2009, 04:55 PM
Post subject: Berate my micro stats before I take shots at $50NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Okay, basically my bankrolls gone from $200 to $1011 this month moving up through the micros, at $1200 if I feel Im playing well I may play a table or two of $50NL to try it out but tbh I dont feel like Im playing all that well. Here is the graph, the dip was a bit of bad luck and a lot of tilt which is something I really have to control. I missed a few hands when I didnt have poker tracker and wasn`t saving histories.
... xmas time noobs have been fueling my bankroll, I have been bum hunting quite a bit and isolating fish while only playing like 4 tables at once so I generally get really good reads, thats why my pfr stat is so low but Im guessing I wont get away with that at $50NL... feel free to berate anything thats out of line (although telling me a lot about pfr being low compared to vpip isnt that helpful unless you elaborate further)
Thanks!
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argash
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 98
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While I'm not one that can offer meaningful insight I can tell you that you'll be quickly asked to post your positional stats.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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okay thanks I was gonna ask what else I should post
I filtered for just $25nl because I feel like my game has changed for this limit. The sample size might be too small in which case I can post a new one in a few days
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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So $590 over 8k hands at 25NL? 14.5ptbb/100?
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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kfaess
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 556
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you're way too loose out of the sb. you have a higher vpip in sb than on bu. I'm not a huge stats guy, but I think folding 85-90% of sb's is probably fine at these limits, just to give you an idea of how tight some ppl play from sb.
Also, there is a pretty big gap between your overall vpip and pfr. you should probably do less calling/limping and more raising in general.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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$588.50 and 14.22, but ya, Im like 4 buyins above EV as well... running good much? but I dont wanna get over confident
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Quote:
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you're way too loose out of the sb. you have a higher vpip in sb than on bu. I'm not a huge stats guy, but I think folding 85-90% of sb's is probably fine at these limits, just to give you an idea of how tight some ppl play from sb.
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I figured I was a bit loose, but wow lol thats pretty bad then... Do you have any advice on a sb range I should be continuing with?
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Hoopy
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Riverballs
Posts: 777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
Quote:
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you're way too loose out of the sb. you have a higher vpip in sb than on bu. I'm not a huge stats guy, but I think folding 85-90% of sb's is probably fine at these limits, just to give you an idea of how tight some ppl play from sb.
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I figured I was a bit loose, but wow lol thats pretty bad then... Do you have any advice on a sb range I should be continuing with? |
Depends on the table but against a EP raise I like to play pretty straight forward - 3 betting my strong value range {AK,QQ+} and only flatting like TT and JJ, setmine against nits.
BUvSB is different but I'm not to good at it since people don't steal that much at 5NL.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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I def flat like AQs, KQs, 77-99 and occasionally others but I doubt id change that. I think Im just limp in from sb with like j9o and k10 which I just have to toss
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Im sure a lot of people are going to tell you that this is not a pretty big sample size to go off of as far as stats are concerned. But just by looking the main thing is opening up your BTN range. Again though in this small sample you could have been seated at tables where opening a wide range was not a good idea. ie having agro players to your right or short stackers.
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Hoopy
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Riverballs
Posts: 777
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Meh it's probably more of a style thing but with 77-99 against unknowns you'll be seeing overcards often and will probably have to c/f quite a few flops or c/c flop and maybe fold turn if he doesn't second barrel often.
Bluffing with them also sucks since you have 2 outs if called and you fold out air that your ahead of. I'd rather flat 98s,9Ts,JTs in the SB vs a EP/MP raise since they can continue on so many more flops.
Anyway it doesn't work for me (atm) but your post flop skills are likely better so you can play more profitably with these hands.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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My button open range when appropriate is like A2s+, A5, A8+, K2s+, K9+, 22-AA, and all suited connectors, any two 10+ and 1 gappers from like 108s+... should I add in lower 1 gappers, suited Qs or low connectors like 78os to my button range when appropriate?
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Quote:
Meh it's probably more of a style thing but with 77-99 against unknowns you'll be seeing overcards often and will probably have to c/f quite a few flops or c/c flop and maybe fold turn if he doesn't second barrel often.
Bluffing with them also sucks since you have 2 outs if called and you fold out air that your ahead of. I'd rather flat 98s,9Ts,JTs in the SB vs a EP/MP raise since they can continue on so many more flops.
Anyway it doesn't work for me (atm) but your post flop skills are likely better so you can play more profitably with these hands.
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tbh I hadnt even really thought through flatting 77-99 or not lol, just call haha. I appreciate the advice and will pay more attention to that
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
My button open range when appropriate is like A2s+, A5, A8+, K2s+, K9+, 22-AA, and all suited connectors, any two 10+ and 1 gappers from like 108s+... should I add in lower 1 gappers, suited Qs or low connectors like 78os to my button range when appropriate?
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I hate telling someone an absolute range. Like always open 22+,SC 56+, broadways etc. Your range should be position dependent yes, But more PLAYER dependent imo. This is something that you can even excersise and experiment with at micros. Like heres and example that is easy to understand. If I have 2 super nits to my right 16/10 or something. I'm literally probably gunna open any 2 cards, and once you understand thier calling/3 betting range you can play some really fun post flop poker. Remember if you want to try something out new or expand your range do it IN POSITION. Even if you goof up you at least still have that very powerful advantage.
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
My button open range when appropriate is like A2s+, A5, A8+, K2s+, K9+, 22-AA, and all suited connectors, any two 10+ and 1 gappers from like 108s+... should I add in lower 1 gappers, suited Qs or low connectors like 78os to my button range when appropriate?
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I hate telling someone an absolute range. Like always open 22+,SC 56+, Broadways etc. Your range should be position dependent yes, But more PLAYER dependent imo. This is something that you can even play with and experiment with at micros. Like heres and example that is easy to understand. If I have 2 super nits to my right 16/10 or something. I'm literally probably gunna open any 2 cards, and once you understand their calling/3 betting range you can play some really fun post flop poker. Remember if you want to try something out new or expand your range do it IN POSITION. Even if you goof up you at least still have that very powerful advantage.
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kfaess
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 556
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
I def flat like AQs, KQs, 77-99 and occasionally others but I doubt id change that. I think Im just limp in from sb with like j9o and k10 which I just have to toss
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Flatting AQs, KQs, 77-99 is fine imo.I don't play J9o or KT from the sb unless I have a specific reason for doing so.
No range anyone tells you is going to be correct for every situation. Like Dragon Slayer said, your play is dependent on your opponents stats, tendencies, and their position PF. For example, it may not be profitable to set mine oop with lowest pp's when a looser opponent opens in late position because often you'll c/f and when you do hit your set their range is weak to the point where you won't get paid off enough.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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okay that all makes sense, thank you both of you for the advice
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eragotte
Quote:
Meh it's probably more of a style thing but with 77-99 against unknowns you'll be seeing overcards often and will probably have to c/f quite a few flops or c/c flop and maybe fold turn if he doesn't second barrel often.
Bluffing with them also sucks since you have 2 outs if called and you fold out air that your ahead of. I'd rather flat 98s,9Ts,JTs in the SB vs a EP/MP raise since they can continue on so many more flops.
Anyway it doesn't work for me (atm) but your post flop skills are likely better so you can play more profitably with these hands.
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tbh I hadnt even really thought through flatting 77-99 or not lol, just call haha. I appreciate the advice and will pay more attention to that |
can't say what I would do about a complete unknown, but..
As you're going forward, realize that pre-flop isn't separate from post-flop. What I mean is that your decisions pre need to mesh with your decisions post. If you're calling it's because you have set value and think he'll pay when you hit. If he's really passive and won't bet you off the best hand then raising might be correct, or if you think he's completely full of crap and won't fight you post flop if he calls.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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i haven't read the discussion that precedes this post, but would just like to point out that you're running good. i'm not saying this to be an ass because you're obviously doing quite a few things right, but don't expect 15BB/100 on a consistent basis. though i'm sure there are many players who CAN do that on a consistent basis at 25nl and even 50nl, you're W$SD and WTSD stats indicate that you're out flopping your opponents more than ought to be expected over a large sample. of course this may have to do with you're relatively weak-tight preflop play, though seeing VPIP'ing 20% of flops isn't really THAT low.
so on to actual advice, be more aggressive preflop, stop open limping (a 4% VPIP/PFR spread from UTG is pretty ridic), and abuse that damn button son. nobody knows how to defend their blinds in a +EV fashion at these stakes , so you should be ATS'ing like 2x's what you are now. could prolly start experimenting with 3b'ing lite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Okay, the utg limps are usually where I have a hand like 89s or 33 that I dont really want to raise and there is a table with a fish or two and a bunch of passive nits, I feel like calling is +EV for sure but maybe not more +EV than raising. Would you suggest open raising these types of hands in the describribed situation or folding them?
Also if I start raising 30+% of buttons how often am I cbeting and how often am i calling 3bets? although I suppose this is a "it depends" I am interested in what you have to say?
further, I realize my results are far above how I have been playing, I think realistically playing well I can beat this stake for around 5bb/100 but atm someone just flicked my doomswitch and i dropped 5 buyins and am taking a break then going back to 10NL for a bit
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celtic123
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR
Posts: 708
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Hi, Im well below your level, so if im wrong here, ill shut up, but have you any idea how often you limp?
Because I suspect it could be a leak .
I have a limp % in my HUD and I usually levy a tax on limpers when I have position and some reads, but like I said , microstakes. Not sure if this would be possible higher up.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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u r running extremely hot
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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God I feel like I say the same shit to all of these threads, but stop open limping, tighten up in EP, and loosen up in LP (aka steal more).
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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No comments on the stats from me and I see no reason why you wouldn't move up.
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- Jason
 
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Donachello
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: TROLOLOLOLOL
Posts: 849
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Running like a god! Ship me some of that please 
As for a good and positionally adjusted range I like to base mine off of the one in this article
http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....6-Max-NLHE.php
Perhaps 3bet more also
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol
Problem officer...?
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Quote:
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God I feel like I say the same shit to all of these threads, but stop open limping, tighten up in EP, and loosen up in LP (aka steal more).
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I just tried that and I think Im getting the hang of it a bit, hard to break old instincts. I played 22/17 for 1500 hands at $10NL for +7 buyins. Ive been pounding the button like crazy (compared to normal) and it pays off so well with these microdonks, they see me as an aggressive idiot and then stack off with bottom pair after Ive annoyed them for an hour stealing their blinds.
I appreciate this advice from everyone, I thought it was small change here and there missing a steal but Im really seeing how good it could be. I think I will set a goal of 24/21 eventually, but no rush, I dont want to get myself into tough spots before I am ready for them.
Also, I will read that article tomorrow morning, bed time though.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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Okay here are some new stats over 3500 hands since reading this board... Is sb still too loose? Also, am i too tight at the cut off?
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celtic123
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: **Officially**The worst poster on FTR
Posts: 708
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Im not experienced enough to advise, but heres my thoughts.
1 Wow, look at your button , thats manic,looks like you know when to fold and when to abuse, Im going to try that.
2 So long as you are consiously tightening the small blind its an improvement, the blinds are a law of nature .
3 I see the C/O the same as the button if you can just force the button to fold !
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Donachello
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: TROLOLOLOLOL
Posts: 849
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Wow @ button stats lol. I'd maybe tighten that up a tiny bit to the 32ish range. Open up on the CO a little bit to around 22-25 or at least higher than your SB. I understand the SB is probably a bit high just because you get limps or folds and you go for the steal against the BB though I might like to have this down a little bit more and not steal with quite as many marginal hands. For instance do it with SC but not so much with hands like J10o.
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol
Problem officer...?
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
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Re: new stats and the comments to them thus far
You can happppily abuse the button even harder. Stop open limping. That means don't do it. Not even then.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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lol :P alright alright, thanks
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