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wellrounded08
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08-03-2008, 05:37 PM
Post subject: Beginners circle Mixed signals
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?
Posts: 366
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Ok, Really I just need clarification.
Those of you who have read the "KK's on an Axx board" thread will know exactly where I'm comming from. If Betting is only causing Worse hands to fold and better hands to call, wouldn't the same principal apply in other hands?
Here's a quick one:
Hero w/ KQ
one small raise and a call, hero calls, button&blinds fold
Flop 6KK rainbow.
checks to hero.
NOW, Betting here will make worse hands fold, and Better hands call/raise.
But if I come to FTR and say I checked that flop, here would be the response-
DDDDDOOOOOOOO NOTTTT SLOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW PLAYYYY
(I'm not trying to be smart or anything)
So what do I do? In any scenario like this? If I wait for the probable bluff on 4th, I'll probably take that much down, but that's slowplaying and it's a deffinate NoNo. Thanks for any input.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
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not even close to the same thing. On the A high flop with KK, someone could have TPGK and you are behind or at least repping an A when betting. On this board, you have trips and the board is paired, showing obvious signs of a made hand when betting. Getting paid without the obvious best hand on an A high board is the purpose of that thread. Getting paid with the obvious best hand on this one is totally different.
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wellrounded08
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
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How then Should I act in such situation?(Thanks for the quick reply, I see the difference now.)
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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As far as the KK hand, your trying to get a bet from a hand worse than yours, all the while not allowing an A to get money in hte pot. You want to see a cheap showdown vs Ax hands and get paid by anything that folds to your bet, by letting them stab at the pot.
On the KKK hand, you need to build the pot to match your monster flop. Almost any bet says I have the K and most people will try to get to showdown cheaply, like your KK hand in the previous example. Your job is to bet, because a K wouldn't bet and fold out worse hands so you may be bluffing. Many hands will call a bet or even 2 on this board if you are aggressive enough on plenty of other hands thinking you may still just be trying to take it away from them. Slow playing and coming alive at the end is just too obvious.
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wellrounded08
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?
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Ok. I see what you mean. But just so I know what to do in multiple situations, suppose the raise/caller is tight aggresive. I mean, a real thinking player. Can I not responsibly check, and call the rather inevitable 4th, or maybe 5th street bluff?
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wellrounded08
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?
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I don't want to sound like I'm not taking the given advice. But as we all know, NLHE is so Situational, I want learn what to do in more and more situations. Find out what tools give me the most money at the end of the day.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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he doesn't even have to be a thinking player, just really aggro postflop.
if you have a hand that he won't call a bet with worse, you have a bluffcatcher. If you think he bluffs a lot, c/c.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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pankfish
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08-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Post subject: Re: Beginners circle Mixed signals
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#8 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wellrounded08
Here's a quick one:
Hero w/ KQ
one small raise and a call, hero calls, button&blinds fold
Flop 6KK rainbow.
checks to hero.
NOW, Betting here will make worse hands fold, and Better hands call/raise.
But if I come to FTR and say I checked that flop, here would be the response-
DDDDDOOOOOOOO NOTTTT SLOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW PLAYYYY
(I'm not trying to be smart or anything)
So what do I do? In any scenario like this? If I wait for the probable bluff on 4th, I'll probably take that much down, but that's slowplaying and it's a deffinate NoNo. Thanks for any input.
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You beat most kings except AK and K6. Only other hand you lose to is 66. People will call with any king, most pairs, good aces. Do the math and tell me how many possible hand combinations he is calling with.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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wellrounded08
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?
Posts: 366
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AHHH. Now that makes sense... Jyms knew, but he was probably tired of telling me. I (obviously) didn't look at it from that angle really. I saw it as, The hands that (I know realize) would call, are the hands that would have bet me on a later street, Maybe. Anyway, now I see.
If I were to bet, get a c/call. then on 4th or 5th get a pot sized bet, how should I react?(I'm sure it depends on reads, stacks, etc. But say in this case a LAGG Opp.)
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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The KK on A high flop is a key thread to understand, as when you do, thats probably the point at which you start to get the concept of value in poker.
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Just playing to improve.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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It depends (sorry). Reads, stats, stacks, but most importantly consider the action from preflop until whatever point you are at. Give opp a range, consider how frequently he is bluffing, are there missed draws etc. and how often the card he is betting has hit his range. For instance, if you decide to c/c (edit: with QQ) on a Kxx board vs. an aggressive player, then the turn is an A, even if he was bluffing on the flop a lot of his bluffs now beat you.
It's sooooo situationally dependant I hope this kind of makes sense...
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wellrounded08
AHHH. Now that makes sense... Jyms knew, but he was probably tired of telling me. I (obviously) didn't look at it from that angle really. I saw it as, The hands that (I know realize) would call, are the hands that would have bet me on a later street, Maybe. Anyway, now I see.
If I were to bet, get a c/call. then on 4th or 5th get a pot sized bet, how should I react?(I'm sure it depends on reads, stacks, etc. But say in this case a LAGG Opp.)
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yeah depends on reads but at your stakes I'd call turn and probably just push river. Download pokerstove if you haven't and try to see your equity vs. different range. So like if it's a "LAGG" then throw in more Kx type hands and throw in more bluffs. You'll see that you have great equity vs. their betting range. Also start making up a range you think they will call a raise with and see if your equity is good enough for that. But I say call turn instead of raise because we have position so we allow for bluffs to continue on river and other hands we beat will call a push. Do you get what I am trying to say?
edit: me and badgers kind of wrote the exact thing haha
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wellrounded08
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?
Posts: 366
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Bjoust, I feel like I really understood that thread, (but probably not in it's entirety, I probably couldn't apply the same principle to various situations)
LoL, I get what your saying. Badg, + Kmind. I'll look into pokerstove, I'm currently figuring out the in&outs of PokerTracker.
Is there any need to be weary of someone hitting their set for a boat? I mean obviously not the sixes, I'd catch onto that I'm sure, but on the Turn/River? Or should I just play assuming they didn't considering the Odds against?
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PlayToWin
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08-04-2008, 03:07 AM
Post subject: Re: Beginners circle Mixed signals
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#14 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wellrounded08
Those of you who have read the "KK's on an Axx board" thread will know exactly where I'm comming from.
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Can someone post a link to this thread, please? TIA
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kmind
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08-04-2008, 03:14 AM
Post subject: Re: Beginners circle Mixed signals
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#15 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PlayToWin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wellrounded08
Those of you who have read the "KK's on an Axx board" thread will know exactly where I'm comming from.
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Can someone post a link to this thread, please? TIA |
sure: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...highlight=flop
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