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bobmarlon
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06-11-2005, 07:23 AM
Post subject: Befor the Flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14
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Does anyone have any Lists of what cards to play generally before the flop. Also how this changes as the amount of players on the table Decreases.
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YoungRounder
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 14
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It would be hard to get a chart or list of hands to play befor the flop, because the situations differ so much. You would have to base it on many other things than just the number of people at the table. You have to take into consideration betting patterns of the poeple you are playing with, the size of the stacks compared to your own at the table, and the stakes. It would be difficult to generalize all of those factors onto a chart.
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Whether you win, or you loose, there is always something you can learn.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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The FTR front page has a starting card list. I'd suggest picking up a beginner's poker book as well.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Just understand that starting hand requirements become increasingly irrelevant as you become a better postflop player and/or table image manipulator.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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YoungRounder
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 14
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Rondavu, when you say that the pre-flop hands become more irrelevent as you become a better post flop player, are you suggesting that you can call with worse hands, and bluff at them when the opprotunity is given?? And Im not sure what you mean by table immage manipulator. But fill me in because i was confused about your last post.
~the Young Rounder~
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Whether you win, or you loose, there is always something you can learn.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by YoungRounder
Rondavu, when you say that the pre-flop hands become more irrelevent as you become a better post flop player, are you suggesting that you can call with worse hands, and bluff at them when the opprotunity is given?? And Im not sure what you mean by table immage manipulator. But fill me in because i was confused about your last post.
~the Young Rounder~
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I won’t presume to speak for Rondavu but I can tell you what I think it means. Use your image of the table to help you decide what hands to play (tigher or looser). Manipulate your image at the table to take advantage of the ones you do play. E.g. If you are seen as tight then people will be more likely to fold when you play a hand.
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NomaD
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 16
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To add to the above comments. It also means that as your post flop play becomes better IE you are able to pick up on other players weak calls/bluffs/poor playing skills, you will see more opportunitys to bluff the pot, when you do that, what you have in your hand is meaningless because your play is based soley on what you think your opponent has, not what you have. Hope this helps
Nomad
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I think irrelevant might have been a strong word for me to use. I think the importance of starting hands become less vital as your reads improve, and your awareness of how others are reading you.
As you become a better player, it becomes less and less about the cards. Here's how I look at it. When you're heads up against someone, you both miss the flop completely most of the time. Therefore in the hands where you both miss the flop, it becomes purely a mind game.
To a lesser degree, this is also the case in a full ring. Instead of completely missed flops, you're concentrating on weak flops.
It's easy to bet on a good hand, but what do you do when you're holding 66 and a J T 3 flop gets checked to you in last position? That's what makes a poker player. It's about knowing exactly when you can take the wheel, and when to jump ship.
It's about winning a lot of small pots, and not getting caught up in a big pot where you can't stand to lay down with such treasure teasing you from the table center. You're drooling over the prospect of winning it without the nut in hand, and then get porked. That's not poker. Poker is being the guy in the alley who comes out of the dark when everyone is vulnerable.
Poker is about knowing what hands play well against other hands. Small pocket pairs against large pocket pairs. Small connectors against unpaired broadways. There's really too many aspects to go on and on about.
When you get down to it, as you become more precise, you can play anything for the right price. You'll discover what I mean as your skills improve. I'm not even close to being a great player yet, but I definately understand exactly why great players are great. I feel I know what I have to learn to get there.
Precise reads, precise bets, precise traps, precise laydowns.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by YoungRounder
Rondavu, when you say that the pre-flop hands become more irrelevent as you become a better post flop player, are you suggesting that you can call with worse hands, and bluff at them when the opprotunity is given?? And Im not sure what you mean by table immage manipulator. But fill me in because i was confused about your last post.
~the Young Rounder~
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as you develop as a post flop player, yes you can loosen up your requirements for joining in hands for advanced elements of the game like implied odds, chip stacks, playing your opponents and so fourth.
i started out with hand charts and the such, playing tight poker (which is ideal for a beginner)
im at a point where i play alot of hands people toss and get paid off, or able to push a wiffed AK off a hand when i wiffed as well.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Starting hand requirements are great until you move up to Laggtown. That's when you'll wonder why you don't seem to be winning anything. It's because your cards are on your forehead facing out.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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bobmarlon
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 14
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Thanks for all your advice.
I play in regular home games in my area and have done quite well playing agressively. Everyone soon cought on and now there playing agressively aswell. It has become rare that a hand gets to the 4th street befor some one is all in. This why Im looking to tighten up my play.
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