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bb flop flush draw, turn top pair

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daven

01-27-2012, 07:56 PM Post subject: bb flop flush draw, turn top pair

#1 (permalink)

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sb is taggish reg, 17-13 who donks a bunch in this kind of pot> he can have flush draws, 2nd pair, 2pr, etc here

utg is 28-6 bad station over small sample
call or raise turn?

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.90)
UTG+1 ($19.08)
MP1 ($48.07)
MP2 ($27.67)
CO ($20.80)
BTN ($23.80)
SB (SB) ($25)
hero ($25)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) hero is BB

UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, BTN calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, hero checks

Flop:

($1, 4 players)
SB bets $0.70, hero calls $0.70, UTG calls $0.70, 1 fold

Turn:

($3.10, 3 players)

SB bets $2.90,

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

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kickass

01-27-2012, 08:22 PM

#2 (permalink)

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call. why no raise pre?

put your glasses back on

daven

01-27-2012, 08:37 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kickass

call. why no raise pre?

I don't think raising pre is absolutely terrible, but if i do so i most likely see the flop oop 4-way with KQ which isn't great either. Hmm, i don't think raising pre is hugely better than checking, if it is better at all

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

d0zer

01-27-2012, 08:59 PM

#4 (permalink)

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you have KQs. how good of a hand do you want before isoing OOP?

bikes

01-27-2012, 09:02 PM

#5 (permalink)

a hot damn mess
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aces plus bra AA+

I damage threads that may actually benefit some posters

Hoopy

01-27-2012, 09:03 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Hoopy is an unknown quantity at this point

Would raise pre since we're way ahead of their ranges.

Maybe raise the flop vs SB's weaker range though I guess keeping the fish in is good.

Given his sizing on the turn I want to call since I think he's bluffing a good percentage.

daven

01-27-2012, 09:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

you have KQs. how good of a hand do you want before isoing OOP?

if utg limper calls after i raise, then the others mostly call along too = he's not isolated. I iso with this from here sometimes for sure, not this spot this time though. Sizing if i do raise pre?
Turn as played?

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

d0zer

01-27-2012, 09:31 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

u shouldn't be uncomfortable playing a multi-way with KQs against fish. turn I can't imagine raising or folding.

daven

01-27-2012, 09:40 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

u shouldn't be uncomfortable playing a multi-way with KQs against fish. turn I can't imagine raising or folding.

valid, cheers

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

kickass

01-27-2012, 10:39 PM

#10 (permalink)

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You talking to yrself

put your glasses back on

kickass

01-27-2012, 11:04 PM

#11 (permalink)

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I'm thinking 1.5-2. And I'm also thinking bout ranges for villains, surely with this short stack fish open limping, if button had anything worth anything he would've isolated the fish first, sb is completing it doesn't mean he'd call a raise and utg is wank and short let him call all day. I don't think this always goes 4 way and even when it does it should be easy enough to play. Sorry if this doesn't make sense it's Friday aka I'm drunk ergo yeah baby.

put your glasses back on

Imthenewfish

01-28-2012, 03:49 AM

#12 (permalink)

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raise pre, as played flop seems like a fistpump raise

bikes

01-28-2012, 03:54 AM

#13 (permalink)

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flop raising is def a mistake as played

I damage threads that may actually benefit some posters

Imthenewfish

01-28-2012, 03:56 AM

#14 (permalink)

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can you explain? i thought we had like infinity equity and a lot of fold equity and could barrel a ton of turns

Angryafrican

01-28-2012, 01:54 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Raise pre. As played I think raising flop is terrible (just think of what range hands you're keeping in, your equity is pretty bad vs that range I'd wager). I'd call turn and c/f river to a big sizing unless the flush hits. I feel a bit wierd playing it that way but I'd never check KQ in the BB.

OngBonga

01-28-2012, 05:17 PM

#16 (permalink)

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My first thought was to raise this flop, we have great equity vs most hands and we rep shitty 2pr combos like 93 so we have lots of fold equity. But raising is likely to induce fold or jam, meaning we're better off raising air here than something that actually wants to see a turn.

As played I'm either folding turn or calling turn calling river. I'm not calling turn to fold brick river, because pot odds and implied odds aren't good enough for heart bink. I don't think our king is good, so I am probably folding turn, but then if I have reason to think this turn psb can be a 2nd barrell bluff, then sure I can call down the king.

And yeah I'm raising this pre, at least I am now. A week ago I check this pre, but I now know this is a mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

ongies gonna ong

surviva316

01-28-2012, 06:10 PM

#17 (permalink)

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You want to fold this turn? What are you, Autistic or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

Roid_Rage

01-28-2012, 06:52 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Call turn. Raise river when we hit flush/two pair/trips (or bet if he checks ofc), call if its a blank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

cock sauce and anything asian is great

daven

01-28-2012, 07:54 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

hero calls turn
->
River:

($8.90, 2 players)

SB bets $5.40,

what's our play now

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

Imthenewfish

01-28-2012, 08:07 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

what's our play now

fold

baudib

01-28-2012, 08:31 PM

#21 (permalink)

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I can see checking something like 99, but I'd raise this for sure, KQs just flops too good against limping ranges to not get more money in.

Playing big pots at small stakes.

rpm

01-28-2012, 10:47 PM

#22 (permalink)

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holy moly raise it pre. as played call turn.

rpm

01-28-2012, 10:49 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Roid_Rage

Call turn. Raise river when we hit flush/two pair/trips (or bet if he checks ofc), call if its a blank.

aren't we effectively bluff catching though? i mean his range if he fires three on a non-heart river will be basically missed FD's (if he has them) and sets, right? it seems he will be pretty polarised when he bombs the turn this sizing and then fires a third barrrel.

rpm

01-28-2012, 10:52 PM

#24 (permalink)

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btw i don't like his sizing but i'm calling river and expecting to see predominantly either two hearts or one of the 9 flopped set combos

edit: unless i have some reason to believe that him leading pot on the turn with a fish still in the pot weights his range too heavily towards nutted hands and away from draws. and that could well be the case.

surviva316

01-28-2012, 11:03 PM

#25 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rpm

What about all of his combos of two pairs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

rpm

01-29-2012, 12:38 AM

#26 (permalink)

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surely he only really has 98s? i mean it's not really a two-pairy flop for anyone who who gets described as "reggish", is it?

OngBonga

01-29-2012, 12:59 AM

#27 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by surviva316

You want to fold this turn? What are you, Autistic or something?

Haha yes I'm autistic. But that's besides the point. Truth be told, I don't know what to do here because I haven't seen how this guy plays the turn after he fires flop. If he normally pots turn after getting cold called, then I'm not folding this turn, but if this psb on turn is to be interpreted as strong, then I fold because we're getting barely over 2:1 with around a 5:1 chance or something of hitting a heart that doesn't pair the board, and a non realistic chance of getting stacks in on river with the best hand when we do bink.

If we think he pays off on any river, or that he can bet this size with KJ or 89hh or other crap we're currently ahead of, then I can change my tune regarding folding turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

ongies gonna ong

tiltingdonkey

01-29-2012, 06:57 AM

#28 (permalink)

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I fold river (I probably call in game though, I'm a station).

daven

01-29-2012, 07:16 AM

#29 (permalink)

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yeah, raising pre is probably better, calling flop is good, so is just calling on the turn...

fade
$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.90)
UTG+1 ($19.08)
MP1 ($48.07)
MP2 ($27.67)
CO ($20.80)
BTN ($23.80)
daven (SB) ($25)
BB ($25)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) daven is SB

UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, BTN calls $0.25, daven calls $0.15, BB checks

Flop:

($1, 4 players)
daven bets $0.70, BB calls $0.70, UTG calls $0.70, 1 fold

Turn:

($3.10, 3 players)
daven bets $2.90, BB raises to $5.88, UTG calls $5.88, daven goes all-in $24.05, BB goes all-in $18.17, UTG goes all-in $2.07

River:

($59.15, 3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $59.15
UTG shows a pair of Kings

daven shows three of a kind, Threes

BB shows a pair of Kings

daven wins $57.15 (net +$32.15)

UTG lost $8.90
BTN lost $0.25
BB lost $25

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

kickass

01-29-2012, 07:59 AM

#30 (permalink)

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Your a weird guy daven. In a nice way. Good fun, not really sure of the point though.

put your glasses back on

daven

01-29-2012, 08:34 AM

#31 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kickass

Your a weird guy daven. In a nice way. Good fun, not really sure of the point though.

cheers bro

my point in posting the hand was that i was genuinely curious if his turn play had any merit.

a cool side effect to the thread has been the discussion about pre-flop (trying to defend a play i wouldn't make was interesting cos i think it resulted in good discussion), and i'm pretty sure that those who were advocating raise flop and/or raise turn and/or call river have got something from the thread as well.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

kickass

01-29-2012, 09:21 AM

#32 (permalink)

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Question then; you told us your range for betting the flop so what's your range for betting the turn nearly pot with 2 callers

put your glasses back on

Icanhastreebet

01-29-2012, 12:38 PM

#33 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kickass

Question then; you told us your range for betting the flop so what's your range for betting the turn nearly pot with 2 callers

the nizzles if villains are playing this terribly.

daven

01-29-2012, 06:01 PM

#34 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kickass

Question then; you told us your range for betting the flop so what's your range for betting the turn nearly pot with 2 callers

sizing would vary heaps by hand on my turn bet here cos villains like these don't notice much difference between 1/3 pot and 4/5 pot....
nut flush draws, Khxh, 2pr+ - i mean, not much vs stations like these

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

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