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ljove
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11-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Post subject: BB 72 what should I do at this moment.
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
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r], SB Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($8.49)
Hero (BB) ($2.52)
UTG ($5.34)
UTG+1 ($3.08)
MP1 ($1.58)
MP2 ($1.71)
CO ($3.59)
Button ($0.96)
Preflop: Hero is BB with  , 
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 1 fold, CO calls $0.05, [color=#666666]1 fold[/colocalls $0.03, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.20)  ,  ,  (4 players)
SB bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, MP1 raises to $0.25, 2 folds, Hero?
Villain is unknown can I take my chances and make a call?
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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No, calling would be retarded.
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lukem1990uk
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One Pair
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 20
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is this some kind of joke lol. just insta muck it no questions asked
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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shove imo....you'll hit the 7 on the river and stack em...
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I confess in quicksand
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linaker
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 70
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Do you think MP1 is raising with ATo? Unless one of them has 62, 52 or 32, you are losing to anyone who caught a piece of that flop or began with any pocket pair. Even if they have something like ATo and A6o, which is about the best scenario for you, you will only win 2/3 of the time by the river. Fold.
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ljove
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by linaker
Do you think MP1 is raising with ATo? Unless one of them has 62, 52 or 32, you are losing to anyone who caught a piece of that flop or began with any pocket pair. Even if they have something like ATo and A6o, which is about the best scenario for you, you will only win 2/3 of the time by the river. Fold.
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People are raising with nothing these days.
there are 2,4 and 9 on the board and I decided to call and see if I hit something on turn.Honestly I thought he has no pair just ace.
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WildBill
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Two Pair
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ljove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by linaker
Do you think MP1 is raising with ATo? Unless one of them has 62, 52 or 32, you are losing to anyone who caught a piece of that flop or began with any pocket pair. Even if they have something like ATo and A6o, which is about the best scenario for you, you will only win 2/3 of the time by the river. Fold.
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People are raising with nothing these days.
there are 2,4 and 9 on the board and I decided to call and see if I hit something on turn.Honestly I thought he has no pair just ace. |
You rivered a 7 and he had a set of 4s. Push the pot to papa.
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acoss3006
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Shove flop. If villian has anything better than your big pair, wicked kicker, thats just a bad beat.. dont forget to abuse him in the chatbox for his lack of poker knowledge.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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calculate how much equity you need to have to call.
now figure out villains likely value range.
now add in air until you get enough to break even. how often does he need to be bluffing here?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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unless villain makes this play with air a lot this is an easy fold.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Seriously, what makes you think he ever has air here?
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Carroters are you asking about this particular villain or villains in general? I would usually fold but i'm sure atleast 1 villain exist that we can make a +ev call against. i was just trying to say that a call would only be good if the villlain bluffs a lot on the flop. If he is bluffing it wold be with air.
The board doesn't exactly lend itself to draws and semi bluffs. So he either has us beat or he has complete air. Sure he could have 3/5 for a str8 draw but i have no idea how often this particular villain is go show up with that hand.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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I was asking OP since he seems to have some sort of read. Obviously there exists a villain that can have air here.
It's just a rediculous place to ever make this call because even if he can have air sometimes and is spewy are we actually calling down multiple streets with 72, it's just lol bad. This is almost exactly the same as calling down with A high in a limped pot where we have no reason at all to be involved in or care about making multiple street hero calls. Even if villain is aggro, it's still awful. It's just never going to be +EV, idk why this is even a thread.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
I was asking OP since he seems to have some sort of read. Obviously there exists a villain that can have air here.
It's just a rediculous place to ever make this call because even if he can have air sometimes and is spewy are we actually calling down multiple streets with 72, it's just lol bad. This is almost exactly the same as calling down with A high in a limped pot where we have no reason at all to be involved in or care about making multiple street hero calls. Even if villain is aggro, it's still awful. It's just never going to be +EV, idk why this is even a thread.
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Just talking theoretically here. Lets say villain has a big hand 60 percent of the time and garbage the other 40 percent of the time. He will always fold his garbage if we raise and will always shove his big hands. Is it worth it to raise to go a and win the pot. right there? I personally think we are behind but i think if we are infront we need to protect our hand. If villain is a raise em up with any 2 cowboy then almost any turn card is a scare card.
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ljove
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
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This villain played bad this hand.
I posted hand just to show what can happens when you don't show strength before the flop.
Here is the outcome of the hand:
Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool
SB ($8.49)
Hero (BB) ($2.52)
UTG ($5.34)
UTG+1 ($3.08)
MP1 ($1.58)
MP2 ($1.71)
CO ($3.59)
Button ($0.96)
Preflop: Hero is BB with ,
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 1 fold, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, SB calls $0.03, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.20) , , (4 players)
SB bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, MP1 raises to $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20
Turn: ($0.75)  (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $0.37, Hero raises to $1.45, MP1 calls $0.91 (All-In)
River: ($3.31)  (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $3.31 | Rake: $0.22
Results:
Hero had 7 , 2 (two pair, sevens and twos).
MP1 had A , A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $3.09
Yes I was one of those stupid guys who calls with nothing and bust out aces.
But who was more stupid here.
I had one pair on stupid board(2,4,9) and hit another one on turn.He didn't raised preflop and lose this hand.
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Vinland
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between a couple of points.
Posts: 610
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You got lucky....obviously you were behind on the flop so it was a poor call in this situation.
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I confess in quicksand
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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If his preflop limp is enough to get you to call down with bottom pair then he played it well. You got lucky.
Most people wont call down in limped pots with no hand though.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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linaker
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 70
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You got lucky in hitting one of your 5 outs on the turn and because the villain had a much better hand than you thought, so he was prepared to stack off with it.
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JR9477
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 426
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I often wonder about the value of calling a flop bet hoping to improve to 2Pair/Trips...but in this situation, you are NEVER getting good implied enough odds with his small stack size.
What's up with the 1/2 stack?
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(Josh)
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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someone defiantly played the hand poorly. I'm just not sure it was the villain. He got the op to call a c-raise with a significant dog of a hand. Villain should have found a fold on the turn though.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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OP, i really hope you understand that you sucked out here. One thing you need to work on is assigning ranges too...because your reasoning doesnt reflect upon what villain's range is at all.
What i mean is, we can't call the flop unless we think villain is bluffing a sufficient amount of the time...but we can't check/shove the turn unless we think villain will call a sufficient amount of the time (ie not much bluffs in his flop range). the two ranges are vastly different from each other and a card like the 7h isnt going to change them this much on this board.
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JR9477
I often wonder about the value of calling a flop bet hoping to improve to 2Pair/Trips...but in this situation, you are NEVER getting good implied enough odds with his small stack size.
What's up with the 1/2 stack?
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If the board is dry (i.e., there isn't a big chance that the card that improves you will also improve a villain), you are about 1 in 9 to draw out to 2 pair on the turn-- thus, if you think you can get 8 to 1 implied odds on your call (getting 8 to 1 pot odds is pretty rare in no limit), you can do it. Of course, because sometimes you will behind a monster or your card will make someone else's better 2 pair or straight, you probably should demand greater than 8 to 1 on your call.
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mz102489
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: utg
Posts: 76
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..and thats why you dont limp aces
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WildBill
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Two Pair
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mz102489
..and thats why you dont limp aces
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He's not folding 27 anyway. The only difference is he'll be put on AK.
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