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Razy Dazy
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03-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Post subject: Bankroll management vs. enjoyment
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6
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I have read many of the very knowledgeable posts here and elsewhere on brm but I have a dilemma.
I tend to get bored with the lower limits as well as get discouraged by some of the trash calls/ suckouts below a .5/1 game. I have tried to multitable at lower limits but I tend to play poorly imo when I multitable whereas when I single table I am a positive player. My br is about 500. I know that even at a 30 buy in that is only 16.67 buy ins which raises the risk of going broke.
I want to become a better player and I know brm is a part of it but this seems to be a part I have trouble getting past.
I was really wondering if anyone else has this dilemma and how they deal with it.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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hmm, I dealt with it by going broke over and over again.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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Razy Dazy
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
hmm, I dealt with it by going broke over and over again.
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lol
did you ever change or are you still going broke?
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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I have enjoyment when my bankroll goes up... 
Seriously tho', if you don't care about losing money and have it to lose, BRM really doesn't apply. When I get in that mood, I 6 table Blackjack on UB for 3 hands a table. Then hit, stand and split like a crack ho on Red Bull!
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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I'm not exactly the standard case, essentially this is my story with poker (abridged: omitting non-BR related stuff):
I started playing home games, bar tourneys, with no idea bout BR management. I read a couple books, got into some REALLY soft home games, and before I knew it I was playing in the local cardroom and paying the bills mostly with poker winnings.
Then I went broke.
I tried to grind out a bit online.
Then I went broke.
I read rilla's post on BR management. I ignored it.
I went broke.
I got a B+M roll together again and played just slightly out of my roll. It worked for a while, I bought clothes, I drank my body weight in whiskey every week.
I went broke.
I got a job, I still played out of my roll.
I stayed broke.
I played within my roll and a spread of games, some cash, some tourneys, some sngs... The gains were in spurts. After a month or so I played outside my roll again and...
I went almost broke. I lost about $350 and left about $80 in there.
I got fed up and took the $80 I had on poker stars and played within my roll.
$80->$500+ in 2.5 weeks...
I'm not broke.
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Hawk
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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Much of becoming a better player is teaching yourself to become more disciplined and realizing that those players who are making the "trash calls/suckouts" are exactly the people you want to play against.
Also, if part of your problem is not taking the small amounts of money seriously, try not to think about the money in terms of $ value, but in BB's.
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spoonitnow
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03-07-2008, 11:43 PM
Post subject: Re: Bankroll management vs. enjoyment
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#7 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Razy Dazy
I want to become a better player and I know brm is a part of it but this seems to be a part I have trouble getting past.
I was really wondering if anyone else has this dilemma and how they deal with it.
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You can't get better without bankroll management because bankroll management and the discipline required to follow it is a part of getting better. They're one together and you can't have one without the other.
My suggestion is that you work on being more objective about the game. Your bankroll or what stakes you're playing at should not be a consideration while you play. If they are, then you should focus more on the actual poker going on and less on things outside of the game.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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If you think you get frustrated by people making bad calls.
Wait until you play good players and they dont make bad calls.
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Ash256
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03-07-2008, 11:57 PM
Post subject: Re: Bankroll management vs. enjoyment
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Razy Dazy
I have read many of the very knowledgeable posts here and elsewhere on brm but I have a dilemma.
I tend to get bored with the lower limits as well as get discouraged by some of the trash calls/ suckouts below a .5/1 game. I have tried to multitable at lower limits but I tend to play poorly imo when I multitable whereas when I single table I am a positive player. My br is about 500. I know that even at a 30 buy in that is only 16.67 buy ins which raises the risk of going broke.
I want to become a better player and I know brm is a part of it but this seems to be a part I have trouble getting past.
I was really wondering if anyone else has this dilemma and how they deal with it.
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Come to terms with the fact that poker is a grind if you're serious about making money at it - you've just gotta accept it and do your best - and remember that you'll ALWAYS be learning about the game no matter what stakes you play - and the good stuff you learn can be carried everywhere you go.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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If it's just a hobby, you're better off playing in a card room. It's much more fun and if you lose a buyin or two, go home and come back next weekend.
Something else to consider:
If you really want to know how good you are at poker, you have to do it over tens or hundreds of thousands of hands.
-bankroll required-
Thinking about it in terms of big bets rather than cash like Hawkfan said is a good idea also.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wesrman
If you think you get frustrated by people making bad calls.
Wait until you play good players and they dont make bad calls.
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word
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wesrman
If you think you get frustrated by people making bad calls.
Wait until you play good players and they dont make bad calls.
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Spectacular.
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Razy Dazy
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6
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I think what I needed was just to hear you guys say this stuff to me. I have dedicated myself to learning all of the skills not just some of the skills to be a good and profitable poker player. I also need to remember that I started to play b/c I enjoy cards and whether it is .05/.1 or 20/40 it is the same game.
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Grinder
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Great story Dev, that's almost sticky worthy. 
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XBOXXBOXXBOX
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
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I've lost over $450 bucks playing poker online. Is it fun when you lose? Of course not, but I'm learning more and more each day. I've changed my gears and only play MTT $.10-$.50 games. If you double up just one time, you'll make money. While not a whole lot of money, it is fun to play wihout losing money.
Now, I just need to turn $.10 into $65.00
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Liam^
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106
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Just start to take pride in your discipline and good play. Look for those people who love to suck out and punish them for trying. at $5 nl I like to overbet the pot sometimes, and that seems to scare most away. If someone still wants to play then great.
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donnybaker
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: not playing much
Posts: 154
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
If it's just a hobby, you're better off playing in a card room. It's much more fun and if you lose a buyin or two, go home and come back next weekend.
Something else to consider:
If you really want to know how good you are at poker, you have to do it over tens or hundreds of thousands of hands.
-bankroll required-
Thinking about it in terms of big bets rather than cash like Hawkfan said is a good idea also.
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Plus the players online are pretty good in general. Lots of multitabling grinders and regs.
When I look and my Stars account, I only see buy-ins. When I was building up at $.02 NL I tried to get the highest winrate I could in PTBB/100. Who cares about $2? No one. A 16 PTBB/100 win rate over 30k hands though, that does mean something to me even though it was only $200.
With a $500 BR, I would not play higher than 10NL if I were you until you have a little more cushion for 25NL and a proven win rate over 20k hands or so.
If you're talking about limit I have no clue. I would need an infinite bankroll because I suck at limit.
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