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Maverick

04-07-2005, 01:14 AM Post subject: Bankroll and learning

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 82

Ok played my first SnG on stars last night. Found it very exciting compared to normal ring games ($5.00+$0.50)

I kept in mind what I had read at this site (taking it easy early on, dont waste early chips) and I did ok.

My question is, if I were to begin playing SnG's as well as my micro limit ring game, I would only have like 12 SnG buy-ins with my roll. I feel this would change the way I play in the tournament...

I know the idea of a bankroll is to build it but im wondering if anyone 'props' it up with regular additions whilst they're still learning?

I enjoy the micro limits but its hard to guage my progress, I am up about $20 from a few weeks of micro play but its very slow going and its hard to rate the BB/hour and its going to take like a few months to build the roll upto $0.05-$0.10 standards.

Anyone experience this when they were just starting out? Thanks!

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JeffreyGB

04-07-2005, 03:21 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

I ignored my BR when I started, but that's not what I recommend.

What I would recommend, however, is looking at another option: Pokerstars sounds like it's a good place for your ring games, with the limits they offer. If you have the deposit to make and you really want to try SnG play, take a look at Ultimate Bet. They offer $1 +$0.10 SnGs, so that would easily fit your bankroll. They also offer the same .01/.02 tables for ring play, so that's nice as well. Finally, the bonus is inconsequental (because it takes so long to unlock compared to other sites), so signing up with a small bankroll and thus limiting the amount of bonus you can get is not an issue. Finally, on a side note, I find their interface to be the most pleasant I've seen so far.

One thing that you may want to think about in finding your home for play is rakeback. For your current level of play, it's pointless and will mean nothing. However, as you move up, this will change. If you plan on playing seriously, definitely find a good rakeback offer to sign up under.

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

wobbler

04-07-2005, 05:55 AM Post subject: Re: Bankroll and learning

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I know the idea of a bankroll is to build it but im wondering if anyone 'props' it up with regular additions whilst they're still learning?

I don't see anything wrong with spending say $25 a month while you are learning. That's not a lot compared to other 'hobbies'. But I would still be careful about moving up. No BR is big enough if you are not winning long term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

I enjoy the micro limits but its hard to guage my progress, I am up about $20 from a few weeks of micro play but its very slow going and its hard to rate the BB/hour and its going to take like a few months to build the roll upto $0.05-$0.10 standards.

Anyone experience this when they were just starting out? Thanks!

YES. I built up my BR from a $50 deposit starting at the 1c/2c tables at UB. It was slow for me too.

Maverick

04-07-2005, 07:03 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 82

thanks for the responses guys!

Yea jeffrey, ultimate bet sounds good! I really enjoyed the SnG I played on stars but believe I was against a fairly passive table (placed 2nd) If I took a string of beats it could mean my roll.

$1 SnG would be good for me to cut my teeth on by the sounds of it. I will get you to tell me about this 'rakeback' when I move up, I've read a little about it and it sounds like a good deal. Thanks for the info, if you get a referall bonus for ultimate and want it let me know

Hey wobbler, you know what I mean. It's hard to guage if your 'beating' micro-limits when its taking weeks to build up slowly (at least its a constant build I suppose)

What roll do you *personally* recommend for 0.05-0.10 NL, I have read what this site has said, but would also like to hear your opinion seeing you relate to where i'm coming from.
I have no problem doing it the hard way as i'm always learning, even from micro limits. A goal to shoot for would be nice though.

thanks again!

Staresy

04-07-2005, 01:25 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land

Posts: 1,240

Hey Maverick

Have a read thru 'Rilla's BR Management ......

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=4971

My estimate for .05/.10 NL, would be somewhere in the region of $100-150.

As for a goal to shoot for, I would say that would depend on how confident you feel at the level you play. Also, what do you want to get out of playing. Maybe you should set yourself a target. Anything you want to buy (iPod? holiday/vacation?).

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Maverick

04-07-2005, 04:43 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 82

heya Staresy,

yea thanks for the link, good info in there. $100-$150 sounds reasonable, ill stick at the micros and build up.

As for goals, yea I'm mostly playing to build my skill as a poker player (I really enjoy texas holdem) Also seeing how much of a bankroll I can build with a small amount of money. Its fun keeping score ect...

I think I'll continue along that path, cheers for the post

wobbler

04-08-2005, 01:28 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 134

Yea, I think a BR of $100-150 for $10NL is good too. You want to be able to keep playing even if you suffer a couple of bad beats early on. If you moved up while only $20 ahead you could lose that in just a few hands, forcing you back down to the penny table to start all over--not fun at all

About rakebacks: I think the point JeffreyGB was trying to make was that you won't be able to get a rakeback deal on a pokersite you already have an account on. So even if you don't need it right now, you should still consider getting one when signing up to pokerrooms if you anticipate needing/wanting it in the future.

JeffreyGB

04-08-2005, 02:29 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

On rakeback: Yes, what Wobbler said is exactly what I meant. My favorite site to play at (when I'm not earning bonuses) is UB, however I can't get rakeback there because I signed up with them before I even knew it existed. Result: only play I make on UB is tournaments, where the rake is minimal.

Also, for the record...Technically, a $100 bankroll is rather small for NL$10. Usually it's recommended that you have as close to 30 buyins as possible, so I'd look for at least $200, up to $300, when moving up.

Once you get up to $100, however, you will be properly bankrolled for $5 SnGs (assuming 20 buyins is enough for you to feel comfortable). If you do well, the next $100 will come a lot faster than the $50 you make to get you to that point.

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

lonnie

04-08-2005, 03:00 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

I would continue to make small deposits of 50-100 until you are sure you have developed the discipline/skill to win consistently. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to win your way into a substantial bankroll. Plenty of us here have done it.

A lot of the bankroll suggestions I have seen are based on someone that is a winning poker player and has a finite amount of money they can ever devote to poker. I think the bankroll requirements some have suggested are ridiculous for the casual low stakes online player.

100 dollars is plenty to play $10 NL. If you bust, try again next month. 100 is also plenty to play .50/1.00 limit. Go bust? Try again later.

I think the 300 BB rules and other bankroll suggestions come into play more when you are planning on playing poker as your sole source of income and will not have the luxury of generating more money to play with.

When I first started, I started with $50. I never had to redeposit because I got lucky a lot early on. Later on I developed a little skill. If I would have gone bust, I would have either quit or put some more money in and tried again.

As long as you start with a good table stake at whatever session you decide to play, I wouldn't worry about your bankroll. Just sit at limits where you feel your skill and comfort level are right with a good stack and go for it.

JeffreyGB

04-08-2005, 03:30 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonnie

I think the bankroll requirements some have suggested are ridiculous for the casual low stakes online player.

100 dollars is plenty to play $10 NL. If you bust, try again next month. 100 is also plenty to play .50/1.00 limit. Go bust? Try again later.

Very good points, Lonnie. Being willing and able to deposit more into your account means that your deposit isn't your whole bankroll, which screws up all the calculations for bankroll management.

And for the record, I too started playing with far less money in my account than I and many others are recommending. A big factor is if you're willing to deposit more or not.

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

Sed

04-08-2005, 03:33 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

If you don't have a restriction on what you can put in while learning, 1/2-1/3 of the rilla-recommeded bankroll is playable.

The issue is if you are setting yourself up as a bad BR manager for life. You don't want to be one of those guys donating money to other players because you are out of your bankroll and a nl buyin loss affects your play because you just lost 1/5 of your bankroll.

I am another FTRer who put in 50$ to pokerstars and never plans on having to deposit anything from my paycheck to play poker for the rest of my life. Starting out below what you find exciting helps develop proper card discipline, tilt-immunity, and bankroll management. As you move up within your BR the amount of money you play with becomes trivial to what your BR is so it is easier to disassociate $ value from the chips.

These are just my thoughts. I would keep playing within your BR. If you are just playing for fun, go for it. But if you want to develop as a player...

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

Maverick

04-08-2005, 05:01 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 82

thanks for the discussion everyone, some really good points put forward.

I like jeff's idea on working the $5SnG's once you hit $100roll. Will prob join UB and practice on the $1.10 tables (will desposit money, solely as practice funds and if it turns a profit then thats good too)

Thanks for defining rakeback too, suppose you join through those affiliate sites to get the rakeback going on?

Gatlin Dan

04-08-2005, 05:30 PM

#13 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

yes, you have to go to the affiliate site and sign up through them if you want rakeback.

Maverick

04-10-2005, 05:27 AM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 82

yea I looked at those sites, it must just be me being paranoid but they really looked kinda suspect (poor page design, not professional looking)

But hey if it is legit and it saves you rake then i'm game for it. Nice one

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