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Bad win without showdown

  
 
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Clar17y
Old 09-13-2008, 01:09 PM     Post subject: Bad win without showdown #1 (permalink)  
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Clar17y
My hold'em manager chart shows my win without showdown to be pretty damn negative.

I have an overall + monies at 25NL but all the money comes from showdown and without showdown is like a straight line downwards.

Is this because i fold too much? Or do i not try to bet draws out of my made hands enough?
I'm obviously not too fussed as long as i keep making money but i feel it's a leak and i don't know what to do to stop it. I make TPTK laydowns against unknown facing aggression etc; should i be more prepared to risk my stack and make notes after?

Clar
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spoonitnow
Old 09-13-2008, 02:24 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 What are your attempt to steal, won $ when saw flop, won without showdown, and won at showdown?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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kmind
Old 09-13-2008, 03:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 There's a lot of threads about this fyi
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Clar17y
Old 09-14-2008, 02:26 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
What are your attempt to steal, won $ when saw flop, won without showdown, and won at showdown?
(I have Hold'em Manager so i dunno how to do total steal % but i got it from position)
Attempt to steal from cutoff: 23.8
Attempt to steal from button: 32.4
Attempt to steal from SB: 35.8
Won $ WSF: 42.9
Won $ SD: 50.9

After a 50k hand sample i'm +$72.18, Won $ at showdown $1810.40, Won $ WO Showdown: -$1738.30.

Most worrying thing is in last 15k hands i've gone on a 20 BI downswing. With -$300 in the last 3k hands. (I think it's been coolers but maybe a few i could get away from, probably will post them)

VPIP is 20.4
PFR 15.8
3Bet 5.5

fwiw.

Any help appreciated,
Clar
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spoonitnow
Old 09-14-2008, 02:59 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clar17y
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
What are your attempt to steal, won $ when saw flop, won without showdown, and won at showdown?
(I have Hold'em Manager so i dunno how to do total steal % but i got it from position)
Attempt to steal from cutoff: 23.8
Attempt to steal from button: 32.4
Attempt to steal from SB: 35.8
Won $ WSF: 42.9
Won $ SD: 50.9

After a 50k hand sample i'm +$72.18, Won $ at showdown $1810.40, Won $ WO Showdown: -$1738.30.

Most worrying thing is in last 15k hands i've gone on a 20 BI downswing. With -$300 in the last 3k hands. (I think it's been coolers but maybe a few i could get away from, probably will post them)

VPIP is 20.4
PFR 15.8
3Bet 5.5

fwiw.

Any help appreciated,
Clar
I'm assuming first that you play 6-max. Then I would think it's something about your post-flop play since your pre-flop play looks pretty solid as best as I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
 
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Clar17y
Old 09-14-2008, 03:41 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Clar17y
Yes i do play 6-max and it's nice to know that my pre-flop is pretty solid thanks

I think it is to do with my post flop play too. I know how to put people on ranges but i rarely tend to do it when it matters.

I also seem to get into big pots with big hands and always be beat. Yet my stats would seem to show i fold too much.
I think i get scared easily by big bets when i'm only holding a pair even though there is a chance villain could be bluffing, and may be folding the best hand because i don't feel comfortable bloating the pot with just 1 pair.

Then again whenever i have a set, i tend to get it all in regardless of the action and never think to fold. I have only folded a set once, and it was in a 3 way pot when i had a good read on a villain.
Example of previous statement would be like being minraised on flop and then on turn with bottom set but thinking "screw it i have a set poooosh!". Or aces with a low connected flop (e.g. 896 rainbow).

I try to look over my hand histories and i have learnt a little, but some of the time i just think it was inevitable and it was going in. Is the best way to work on my post flop game just post HHs and talk about then?

Clar
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Clar17y
Old 09-16-2008, 11:56 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Clar17y
If i take away my play from the blinds i get a non-showdown line that breaks even.

Does this indicate i'm leaking monies from the blinds or should i actually be making money w/o showdown at every position and the blinds make it go back down to even?

Thanks,
Clar
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kettleofish
Old 09-16-2008, 02:46 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Are you losing more from the blinds than you would be if u just folded them PF? I don't user HEM so i don't know if it has these stats, but is there a BB/hand stat that u can filter for each position? When defending do u tend to call rather than 3-bet? U may just be calling too much PF then giving up when u don't hit.
There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
 
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