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B+M 1-2 No Limit Hand - three questions
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gormancn
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05-16-2006, 05:54 PM
Post subject: B+M 1-2 No Limit Hand - three questions
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 8
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I've recently made the switch from live limit to no-limit, and while I've gotten a ton better, there are still hands like this that frustate me and give me pause:
I had been playing at this 100max 1-2 NL game for a few hours, and I'd developed a very tight-aggressive table image (well, i was playing tight aggressive), but the table shifted to being really passive for a bit as a couple new players came in. UTG+1 I was dealt Ad-3d. At this point my stack is about $185. Normally, I throw this hand away unless I'm on button, but there are been so few raises, and those raises had been from weak players, that I decided a limp would probably be worth it. Sure enough, there seven limpers.
Flop comes: 10d-2d-6d, so I've flopped the nut flush. The big blind, who had overbet a lot of hands (though not from out of position) and was quite loose, bet out $10. He started the hand with about $130. I decide to call the $10 to see if anyone else wants to come along, or if I can catch a raiser. Everyone else folds.
Turn comes: 7c. BB bets out $20. This is the point where I don't really know what to do. My best guess is that he's got a 10, possibly two pair, and at worst a set. In my base case scenario, he might have a flush draw, but I didn't get that vibe (a few hands earlier he had check-raised the flop with a flush draw, bet out the turn, and then was called on the river after he lost, and he doesn't seem to want to do it again). My problem is that I know he knows I'm pretty tight, and he damn sure knows that I'm not smooth calling $10 with several players behind me with nothing. I end up calling the $20 and raising another $25. This is obviously a value bet that I really want him to call.
He thinks for a minute and calls. Now I'm 90% positive he's got either two pair, a flush draw, or a set, and I still doubt its a flush draw. Sure enough, the river comes a 7d, and he goes all-in for his last $53 or so, I think to myself "fuck me" and call.
Here are my questions:
1. The flop call-was it correct? I actually like it because the table wasn't astute enough to know that the nut flush was about the only hand I would just call with in that situation. There were a couple folks who had been aggressive post-flop earlier without much. Plus, I'm really playing the guy UTG, because I have no guarantees that anyone else is going play, and it seemed silly to scare him off with such a good hand. In addition, I'll admit that I'd been at the table a lot with very, very mediocre cards and struggling to get paid with the hands I had. I felt like I was playing my cards well, but this was a situation I felt I could milk.
2. The turn raise. This is where I can't figure out if I made the right move. When I raised $25 on the turn, I knew I making a fairly obvious min-raise, but I was still giving him 4-1 odds to call (the pot after my raise was $99). If he's got a set, he's still not getting the express odds to call, but it's still a bet that I knew was going to get called by anything halfway decent. But I don't think he has a set. If I thought he was that strong, I probably would have raised $60 or pushed, expecting a call and not wanting a fourth diamond on the river to keep me from being paid. I'm working to get some more chips in the pot. Again, he thinks for a bit, and calls.
3. The river. He goes all-in when the board pairs and puts the fourth diamond out there. I say "fuck" outloud and stare at him for a bit. Now I'm getting better than 3.5-1 for my money on a crying call. I'm pretty positive he filled up, there's no reason for him to think that he can bluff me, but then again I've seen much stranger things. Moreover, there was a four flush out there, making it less likely that he's bluffing but more likely that he might have been on a flush draw afterall. I finally decide that I don't really know, I'm getting 3.5-1 on my money, and I make the call. I will confess that this call on the river is probably a weakness in my NL, and I can tell it comes directly from limit, where folding on the river with a good hand is a deadly sin. Not the case in NL--but was it still the right move here?
HAND RESULTS BELOW--DON'T READ IF IT AFFECTS POSTING:
******he shows down 7s-6h and takes down the pot with a running full-house. in the end, are there serious gaps of poker reasoning here, or strategy, that could be applied given my reads? Or is this just a hand that was played fairly well to a bad result?********
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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I like the Flop and turn for the same reasons you mentioned. I play it the same. The turn is a total judgment call on how much you think he will call at that point. A call, a bigger reraise, or a min raise are all expectable based on your read of this strength. Put out the largest he will call. If I put him on a set then I push.
Tough river. I think you have to call it though. The Kd or Qd may make that move as well as a pure bluff.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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relayer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 68
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I don't mean to be glib, but is there really any other way to play this hand (in general---of course, one could quibble with the amount of the turn raise, etc.)? I play it almost exactly the same.
And, btw, I hope you took back your chips from this monkey...
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Turska
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05-18-2006, 06:48 AM
Post subject: Well he got lucky
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#4 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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I think you played fine maximising profits he got his
4-outer on river. It is very hard to fold this hand
even after board paired.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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I raise bigger on the turn to give him bad odds if he has a set.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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It's really obvious you have a flush when you raise the turn on a crap card... i might just call.
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saywhat2
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 113
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you got this guy down to a 9% draw for most of his chips if he dont hit the river. You could make a bigger raise on the turn to try and bet him out, but where is the value in that?
I think I play it the same way unless there was multiple opponents. Than I would have been more aggresive.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
I raise bigger on the turn to give him bad odds if he has a set.
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Um, why? If I have the nut flush, and I know for a fact my opponent has a set, and has very little money left, I want to play for his full stack, as I am a favorite to win the pot.
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