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Pelion
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12-07-2005, 01:30 PM
Post subject: Axs late position to a raise and lots of callers? 5NL
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I have been delt A9h 3 times so far today. Each time i limped in CO or Button and one of the guys behind me (usually passive) raised to 5BB. Each time 3 of the other limpers who had already invested 1 BB called the raise and it got to me with about a 21BB pot and only 4 left for me to put in with my Axs. On 0 of these occasions i was given a flush draw but on each occasion the flop came 2 suited, the other limpeers just checked/ small bet giving me the odds to draw to the flush if the draw had come up.
Should i have called here?
My big question is, what are the rules you guys go by when deciding to call preflop raises with suited/ connected cards.
I usually just fold them but this table seemed so passive it might be profitable.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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It depends. At that level most people play any 2 and hate to fold preflop.
Personally, I love to see flops with suited connectors or suited A (suited connector is preferable) even for a raise because that is the type of hand most likely to bust premium pairs. The fact that you have a multi-way pot makes it even more correct. If you miss the flop bad, it is an easy fold.
In this case one of the blinds raised, and you pegged him as passive. That screams to me that he has a big hand AK KK QQ AA. The only hand you are in trouble against is AA. You have a good draw, you can maybe move him off the hand if the A falls, you have position, in other words there are a lot of things going for you to call a raise with suited A. You may hit A9 and destack something like AK in addition to the draw.
There are no hard an fast rules to when to play suited A and connectors because every table will play a little different, but under the conditions you describe you are looking to see a lot of cheap flops in multi-way pots.
So it is always nice to take a shot with those hands, but what do you do when SB comes out firing 3/4 pot on the flop and everyone folds to you?
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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The only hands you can hope for are two pair or better. Even a flush may have trouble getting paid off. It's usually best to fold here as you have a very low chance of hitting a hand that gets paid off.
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{This post has been removed}
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
The calling factor here is contigent upon how many players you have in the hand. If there are 4 limpers ahead of you, I definitely make the call here. If you have a heads up situation where the raiser pounds in a 5X...dump it. If you have an original raiser initiating a 5X and still have 3 callers before it gets to you...call it. Think pot odds here for hitting your hand. With A/xs you are really playing it for the flush...but 2 pr is where you really get paid off if the original raiser is on A/K, A/Q. Just dont invest too much without that many players in the pot...its not worth it |
I agree. With lots of callers, it's worth it. Somebody may hit the baby flush.
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lowBoy
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
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At this level, people might not be able to lay down a big pair if you hit a flush, but I'd only try it at tables that were donk-heavy as flush boards usually scream warnings.
I MUCH prefer 54s-T9s, as your two pair is more disguised and you've got tasty tasty straight possibilities.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I really should play in one of these games for a couple hours and post the HH.
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lowBoy
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
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If lady variance wasn't kicking your ass I think people would hate your super-loose, near maniacal control over the table.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
oh and one more thing....and I cant stress this enough...always remember WHY you played A/rag suited in the first place. If you call a raise with A/2s and the flop is A/x/x with no 2 pair or draw for you, and the original raiser leads out...FOLD.....This is one of the biggest mistakes inexperienced players make is playing A/rag suited and then catching the Ace and calling someone down who is invariably on a bigger Ace...you are playing this hand for the flush...or two pair ONLY....If you catch the ace and there is no action...then still dont invest a dime on raises playing the Ace. check it down. Just remember why you are playing the hand in the first place. The same players that lose money here are the same ones who are falling in love with their small pocket pairs no matter what the board looks like. You play small pairs for the set..period...and you are playing A/x suited for the flush or two pair...period. Don't get excited when your Ace hits because more often than not you are beat...especially in a multi-way pot
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I never carry on after hitting ace unless the pot is so big and the bet is so small that i have odds to call for 2 pair. This is verrrry rare though
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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People overvalue suited connector and Axs tremendously. In a nice multiway pot it's correct to limp, or if it's folded to you in LP I'd raise with it. And if I'm calling a raise with it, I better be in position. It's tough to get paid off when you're out of position.
Calling raises with this hand is generally a mistake unless the stacks are really deep. You miss the flop way too much with a suited connector or Axs to be calling raises with it. If I'm playing it I'm either raising and taking control of the pot or I'm limping to see a cheap flop. The great thing about a hand like 45s is that you know where you stand for the most part when the flop comes.
If you have a ton of limpers in the pot be prepared to fold to any aggression if you flop trips and don't fill up. People love to play aces, especially online, so you are usually outkicked in this spot.
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