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Tasha
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07-04-2010, 08:34 PM
Post subject: As6s worth as much as As2s
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
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It seems there is a point of view that a hand of Ax2x is worth the same as Ax6x even though the latter has a higher kicker, and that Ax5x can sometimes be better because the straight draws are better.
Is that a reasonable idea?
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Code:
328,762,368 games 0.281 secs 1,169,972,839 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.452% 39.89% 17.56% 131140044 57739044.00 { A6s, A6o }
Hand 1: 42.548% 24.99% 17.56% 82144236 57739044.00 { A5s, A5o }
328,762,368 games 0.266 secs 1,235,948,751 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.001% 34.53% 21.48% 113506896 70604760.00 { A5s, A5o }
Hand 1: 43.999% 22.52% 21.48% 74045952 70604760.00 { A2s, A2o }
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Penneywize
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 885
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This probably has no relation whatsoever to the ..... question you were asking, but there are situations in multi-table tournaments where you would be correct to push A5s and A4s but not AJo, nor any suited aces from A9s to A6s.
Specifically:
- Far from the money
- We are first to act (UTG) and our stack has a CSI (or M) of 7; meaning our stack has exactly 7 orbits worth of blinds and antes left in it.
We would push A5s but not A6s (or those other hands I mentioned)
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settecba
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: stealing blinds from UTG
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
This probably has no relation whatsoever to the ..... question you were asking, but there are situations in multi-table tournaments where you would be correct to push A5s and A4s but not AJo, nor any suited aces from A9s to A6s.
Specifically:
- Far from the money
- We are first to act (UTG) and our stack has a CSI (or M) of 7; meaning our stack has exactly 7 orbits worth of blinds and antes left in it.
We would push A5s but not A6s (or those other hands I mentioned)
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Why?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ISF
Getting good at poker is like that scene in the matrix where Neo suddenly sees that everyone is just a bunch of structured numbers and then he starts bending those numbers in really weird ways.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settecba
Why?
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A5s can make 1 straight LDFO
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settecba
Why?
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Code:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
308,214,720 games 0.359 secs 858,536,824 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.935% 69.23% 00.70% 213376656 2172750.00 { 99+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 30.065% 29.36% 00.70% 90492564 2172750.00 { A6s }
---
308,214,720 games 0.391 secs 788,272,941 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.533% 67.75% 00.78% 208824852 2404278.00 { 99+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 31.467% 30.69% 00.78% 94581312 2404278.00 { A5s }
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Code:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
12,585,434,400 games 19.812 secs 635,243,004 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 85.204% 84.93% 00.27% 10689050508 34206936.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 14.796% 14.52% 00.27% 1827970020 34206936.00 { random }
---
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settecba
Why?
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Because of our equity against their calling ranges. It's kind of weird how it works out, but basically if they're never calling with a hand that AJo dominates then AJo < A5s because of the suitedness, even though they make a similar number of straights.
As for the specific tournament situation mentioned I think Penney may be a little off but, here is a link for proof that the [game theory] optimal shoving range for UTG when you're far away from the money and you have an M of 7 with no antes is {99+ ATs+ A5s AJo+ KTs+ QTs+}.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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donkfish
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 97
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lol @ 6 being a "kicker"
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donkfish
lol @ 6 being a "kicker"
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gets counterfeited too often to really matter imo
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EasyPoker
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
gets counterfeited too often to really matter imo
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lol aint that the point he was making
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[20:19] <Zill4> god
[20:19] <Zill4> u guys
[20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
[20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
lol aint that the point he was making
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ldfo i was just agreeing with him lol
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Penneywize
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 885
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FWIW I just pulled that info from Kill Everyone's push fold charts.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penneywize
FWIW I just pulled that info from Kill Everyone's push fold charts.
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WP sir
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