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AQs in limped pot

  
 
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deucesomething
Old 04-20-2010, 08:38 AM     Post subject: AQs in limped pot #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is running 18/8 with an afq of 70 over about 60 hands with little showdown history. Original raiser is an 8/8 nit who I haven't seen raise in about a half an hour. My image has been overwhelmingly laggy so far and that's one of the reasons I did not squeeze here preflop (any thoughts on this versus limping?).

I really don't know what to make of these 1/4 pot size bets. Calling here seemed retarded with this board so I raised to defend my hand and to price out the other players & hopefully get a feel for villain's range which this flop would probably hit pretty hard if he called, which he did. I fired a second barrel with the intention of b/f because his range just completely wtfpwns me here. Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($19.80)
Hero (SB) ($11.60)
BB ($10)
UTG ($10)
MP ($10.45)
CO ($10.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q
UTG bets $0.50, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.45, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.10) A, J, K (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.10) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, CO raises to $8.05 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $13.10 | Rake: $0.60
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rpm
Old 04-20-2010, 09:09 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 well its not really a limped pot because a nit opened 5x UTG. as played i dont mind being passive and c/calling the flop. seems like a pretty definite way ahead/way behind spot. if he has all broadways and all pairs TT+, then either you are dead to 4 outs (3 for a chop vs QT). or, if he has like KQ or something then he's dead to 4 outs (and he should realise this on a board which hits calling ranges pretty hard). checkraising the flop and leading the turn seem like good ways to make sure you are against the part of villain's range you are way behind.
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deucesomething
Old 04-20-2010, 09:40 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
as played i dont mind being passive and c/calling the flop.
How would you play the later streets given that turn and assuming everyone else folds if we c/c flop?
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rpm
Old 04-20-2010, 11:25 AM #4 (permalink)  
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rpm has a spectacular aura aboutrpm has a spectacular aura aboutrpm has a spectacular aura about
 good question. i can see this being a hand which i would be terribly confused in so i'm interested to know what a decent player has to say. i just stoved your hand vs all broadways and TT+ on the turn, and you had 57% equity against that range. so if he calls with all sets, two pairs, and one pair/gutters then i guess bet/folding the turn would be fine seeing as i dont expect villain to attempt to bluff us much on this board at all. the reason i suggest leading the turn after c/cing the flop is because the pot is only 30bb and we can bet/fold without putting too much of our stack in the pot.
once you have checkraised the flop, however, villains range on the turn becomes stronger. there is a difference between the range he bets 1/4 pot on the flop with, and the range he calls a 4x checkraise with. by checkraising you are bloating a pot OOP with a one pair hand and simultaneously manipulating your opponents range toward the stronger hands, which is why i dont like leading the turn in a c/r'd pot if you dont intend to call a shove, but dont mind betting $2 into $3 against a range that is unlikely to fold and we have kept wide enough to be able to bet against for value.
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Donachello
Old 04-20-2010, 02:06 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
well its not really a limped pot because a nit opened 5x UTG. as played i dont mind being passive and c/calling the flop.
This. Your bloating the pot when you don't need to be. Take your free look at hitting the nut straight.

Also... how about you put him on a range? From the line he took it looks like he is obviously trying to induce with a hand like JJ or QT or AJ although I'm not sure if JJ is in his range or not. Honestly I think your line is terrible and the reason it's terrible is because you don't have a clue what he is playing. So.. Range. First step.
[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

Problem officer...?
 
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jaytoi
Old 04-20-2010, 03:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Considering the the UTG nit raises PF and folds to a PSB here im pretty sure his range is like exactly (TT,QQ) so i think it's fair enough to say there's a lot of dead cards for the straight, both for you on the turn and villian on the flop. I dont think you're going to get beat by a straight very often here , as a result, but you should think about how much AK and AJ ( and even KJ) are part of his range here. I kind of dont mind the raise on the flop as villians bet could be an ill-conceived attempt to buy a pot because there is a nit in the hand, but you should definitely, definitely, be prepared to c/fold the turn if you choose to raise here. Theres no way an 18/8 is going to call a raise on the flop and then fire a turn blank unless he has better than you here, even if you check it to him, imo.

Obviously you can also check call down and keep his range wide as all of these guys have advocated. AT is pretty much the only thin-value part of villians range we beat. So it might be smart to keep it in the hand and not raise it out.
Im ready this time.
 
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littleogre
Old 04-20-2010, 07:21 PM #7 (permalink)  

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 Well i don't know about the good player part but i would check the turn and call a reasonable bet. It's hard to say exactly what size i would call though with no reads. If he checks behind i bet fold the river assuming we don't get the nuts. If we river the nuts then i bet and hope my opponent raises.
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rpm
Old 04-20-2010, 10:38 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 i dont mind checking the turn. we dont really ever expect to get 3 streets from this hand unless we make the nut straight so checking the turn makes betting the river far more feasible. doesnt he call wider on the turn though? when he doesn't know if he has or hasn't made his straight with TX or Qx
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littleogre
Old 04-22-2010, 11:38 AM #9 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
i dont mind checking the turn. we dont really ever expect to get 3 streets from this hand unless we make the nut straight so checking the turn makes betting the river far more feasible. doesnt he call wider on the turn though? when he doesn't know if he has or hasn't made his straight with TX or Qx
That's a good question. On non draw heavy boards when you think you should only value bet 2 streets you are better off betting the flop and river. When you check the turn then bet the river people call more often they would if you bet the flop and turn.
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