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AQ in position... a discussion

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Monty3038

11-09-2009, 03:23 PM Post subject: AQ in position... a discussion

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Ohio

Posts: 788

Hi Everyone,

The recent post where stacks went into detail on AQo OOP as well as many other posters got me thinking... I like AQ hands, IN POSITION, but I'm wondering how much I'm overplaying them (getting myself in bad spots).

So here is my attempt to diagnose it... without a specific hand to work from, but just in general. I'm going to try to work out three scenarios... please tell me where I'm right and where I'm lost... maybe in the course of it, we'll all improve (I know I will)

I play 6-max, mostly 5Nl... most opponents are crappy but some play tag, especially from EP's.

(1) EP limper, 6 Max, 5Nl, generally passive table, we are on button. We have AQo and raise to 4-5 x BB, limper calls... how do we stack up?

-- My first thought here is limping they have a Axs, ATo+, 22+, KQ kind of range, and their calling OOP doesn't really define it any clearer for me, not at 5Nl. At worst I'm flipping here, but I'm ahead a little, Poker stove gives me a 56% favorite rating... position can be very valuable here too, so what kind of response are we expecting from them on an Axx flop, random flop, etc... (point is not to have you answer a bunch of scenarios, just think about it)... here I think we are in good shape.

(2) AQ on button, one 3x BB raiser from CO ahead, expect folds by SB and BB. Call or Re-raise? This is a position I struggle in here... the CO range is fairly wide I think, Ax, 22+, most broadway combos, sc's down to 67... is my range too wide here for villian? Also, let's see how we stack up against that range... using PS, we're ahead of a lot of the range here.. around 61% favorite... I'm not struggling with the fact we should be in this hand... I'm struggling with the raise/call option, I'm thinking it is more proper to raise (duh) but have been struggling here with this hand post flop... thoughts appreciated...

(3) AQ in a blind battle... call by SB puts us way ahead, raise by SB? I don't see consistent results by sb to range this effectively... I'm really struggling with the range when they raise... I want to put them on a 20% range there, about what I'm raising (I tend to steal a bit heavy from the SB) but I'm really struggling with a standard range to put them on... thoughts?

With a 20% raising range from SB, we're around a 58% favorite in the hand... but is that realistic? The limping range I'm sure we're ahead of, by a big margin, and should punish them for limping, but the raising range? I'm just not comfortable with it...

Anyway, was thinking about AQ this morning after the other post... just thought I'd open some discussion on it further...

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Vinland

11-09-2009, 04:25 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Vinland is an unknown quantity at this point

1) I raise up every time. The reason they limp a lot is b/c they are passive and we usually take the pot dowe with a cbet when they miss too. Even if they have a low PP and the board comes with some high cards like a K, they usually will fold imo.
2) I tend to call here as apposed to reraising but its player dependant. If its a maniac who raises lots and calls lots of 3bets, then sure, reraise. If its a player who still raises wide but isnt nuts, then just call to allow a larger range to be OOP against you. Reraising here only brings hands that beat you into the flop. If its a nit reg who plays 8/4/3 then I fold, b/c they rarely raise anything worse than AK.
3) I'm with you, I dont know where to put the range when they reraise. I find myself calling a lot of 3bets here but then I play passive on flop and quickly fold to any aggression when I dont connect. Def a leak for me here.

I confess in quicksand

spoonitnow

11-09-2009, 04:36 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

1) You're in position with the best hand. What the hell else do you want?

2) Why do we bet and raise?

3) I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

Stacks

11-09-2009, 04:38 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

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(1) EP limper, we raise AQo on the BU, limper calls...

We are way ahead here, and am always loving this situation. Your range is assuming villain is limping hands like JJ-AA, AQ-AK, KQs, etc, when in fact those hands usually aren't in his range, due to the fact he usually opens those hands himself. Instead, a weak player's limp/calling range in this situation will consist of alot of small-mid pps, suited connectors, suited gappers, 'weaker' broadway (QTo, KJo, etc), as well as some other retarded trash like A4o, etc. Our equity is going to be ahead of their range preflop, we are going to be in position postflop, and this leads to +EV spots.

(2) AQ on button, one 3x raiser from CO.. Call or 3bet?

This is dependent on a number of villain's tendencies. Depending on villain's opening range, and the range of hands he would continue with facing a 3bet, should be examined to determine our action. If he's opening a wide range, then calling is +EV, as we have sufficient equity as well as a positional advantage. If he's opening a narrow range, then our equity decreases, while things like reverse implied odds increases, and the hand merges closer to a fold (probably never a fold CO v Bu).

If he is opening a wide range, and continuing with a narrow range of only premiums (like JJ+, AK), then calling is still +EV due to us having enough equity against his opening range. However, 3betting is bad because we are a dog to his 3bet calling range (which will obviously differ from his opening range). In situations like this, villain will be folding hands you beat, like AJ/AT/etc and only calling with hands that are a favorite over your AQo. Thus, a 3bet here would builld a large pot that you are an underdog to win.

However, if villain is opening a wide range, and continuing to a 3bet with some dominated hands, then 3betting very well could be correct. If he's calling with hands like AJ/AT/KQ/QJs, then our equity against his 3bet calling range increases. This makes building a large pot profitable because now not only do we have position, we are a favorite to win the hand.

(3) AQ in a blind battle

Once again it's dependent on villain's range. If BB is a competent opponent, then an aware SB should not be opening a very wide range. Because BB has position on the SB, the BB should call and 3bet with a fairly high frequency. However, much SBs aren't competent, and just open religiously because they already have some money 'invested' in the pot. So I would never just fold to a SB open here. Calling is definitely +EV. To determine if 3betting is better, then you need to again look at his 3bet calling range, and see how AQo fairs there.

daven

11-09-2009, 05:23 PM Post subject: Re: AQ in position... a discussion

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

The recent post where stacks went into detail on AQo OOP as well as many other posters got me thinking...

link?

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

rong

11-09-2009, 06:44 PM Post subject: Re: AQ in position... a discussion

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Beachside

Posts: 1,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

The recent post where stacks went into detail on AQo OOP as well as many other posters got me thinking...

link?

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ed-t90562.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.

Fucking. Retarded.

kmind

11-09-2009, 07:11 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

If he is opening a wide range, and continuing with a narrow range of only premiums (like JJ+, AK), then calling is still +EV due to us having enough equity against his opening range. However, 3betting is bad because we are a dog to his 3bet calling range (which will obviously differ from his opening range). In situations like this, villain will be folding hands you beat, like AJ/AT/etc and only calling with hands that are a favorite over your AQo. Thus, a 3bet here would builld a large pot that you are an underdog to win.

Agree that calling is MORE +EV but that doesn't mean 3betting can't be +EV too.

daven

11-09-2009, 08:40 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

aq utg link
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ed-t88820.html
the interesting stuff is near the bottom

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

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AQ in position... a discussion

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