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littleogre
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01-07-2006, 10:24 AM
Post subject: Anyway to get away from the following hand?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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This is not an exact hand history as i can not remember the hand exactly but i will give the jest of the hand.
I get wired 7s in middle position. An early position player raises but the raise is less then 8 percent of the smallest stack so i call to try and spike a set . One other play calls. The flop is Q/7/? with 2 spades. The first to act raises a little over the pot. Now i have a set and i figure my opponents both have big pairs. So i'm thinking how do i extract the most money from them. I decide to over bet as they would most surely call with a lesser hand. I'm not real worried about the flush draw but i don't want to just call. So i go all in and they both quickly call. To shorten the the story one guy had wired queens.  I personally see no way to not give up my stack on that hand.
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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You played fine, shit happens.
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Lodogg
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stealing your C-bet
Posts: 199
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You made the right play...Part of poker is losing sometimes. A set over set happens about 1:100. As Finky said "shit happens".
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veryrocky
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: san jose
Posts: 16
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very very unfortunate, correct play though
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ace king is not a made hand.
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TormentMe
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6
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heh, you raise all in on a small pot on the flop, dunno but seems like only way a good player would call that is with 2 pair at worst. Might help if you said the stakes, the bets, stack sizez and well the actual hand history. When your good every single thing matters, so really you cant say much about a hand with incomplete information. Imo All in is not a good move. pair of queens probly wont call you, flush draw probly wont call you, 2 pair and set probly will. What you wana do is just take away the flush odds and hope they have AQ KQ or 2 pair. Anyways its not very easy to fold middle set assuming thats what you had anyways, but going all in sure does not help you do that when ur beat.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Well the pot was about half my stack by the time it got to me. Also i don't know who told you they will only call with 2 pair or better. At low levels they will also call with any oesd or top pair or over pair and sometimes even worse hands.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TormentMe
heh, you raise all in on a small pot on the flop, dunno but seems like only way a good player would call that is with 2 pair at worst. Might help if you said the stakes, the bets, stack sizez and well the actual hand history. When your good every single thing matters, so really you cant say much about a hand with incomplete information. Imo All in is not a good move. pair of queens probly wont call you, flush draw probly wont call you, 2 pair and set probly will. What you wana do is just take away the flush odds and hope they have AQ KQ or 2 pair. Anyways its not very easy to fold middle set assuming thats what you had anyways, but going all in sure does not help you do that when ur beat.
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Can you show me a practical situation where you are going to (correctly) fold middle set on the flop?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Lukie. It isnt about being able to get away from it. Its about letting someone else with AQ (or less) get away from it. If you make a bet that only 2 pair or better will call then you arent maximising value. In this situation you are pot commited anyway with that hand and that stack size so i would put it in a bit at a time. I still expect all the money in by the end and i still want to bet enough to discourage draws but i also want a single pair of queens to put alot in. I dont think most players will do that with AQ and it's less likely with KQ. I think i probably bet slightly around pot on the flop then allin on the turn. even if the flush comes you would have given very wrong odds for chasing so it doesnt matter too much if you pay it off.
Having said that, a strong but vulnerable hand with a small stack size compared to potsize is an area i struggle with so i dont know if im best qualified to answer here.
Edit: and in answer to the original question i dont think theres any way to get away from that.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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overbetting here looks like a bluff, flush draw of perhaps a scared top pair, bottom 2 or such. I see overpairs calling this all the time, sometimes flush draws call too. Nice strong play. Not a play where worse hands fold and only better ones call.
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Well the pot was about half my stack by the time it got to me.
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That's important. Well played then, considering player 1 gets 2:1 on his AQ/KQ and might very well call (depending on stakes). Secondly, player 3 doesn't get odds for any draw he might have.
Alternatively, calling the flop and pushing the turn is fine too IMO.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Lukie....there are situations when i can lose a minimal amount with 2nd set....
2 hands played in last month or so
100nl
I limp TT, 1-2 other limpers, TIGHT utg raises to 5, 2 callers including me, flop is ATx rainbow, he leads for just 5, i raise to 15, he calls, turn check check, river he bets large, i fold correctly.
tight passive 50nl game
i raise to 2 with JJ, get reraised to 6, i call. flop is AJ7, i check and he bets 3, i call. turn x, check check. River fills me up (7) , i bet 5, get minraised, i call expecting to lose and do so.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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{This post has been removed}
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Quote:
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Lukie....there are situations when i can lose a minimal amount with 2nd set....
2 hands played in last month or so
100nl
I limp TT, 1-2 other limpers, TIGHT utg raises to 5, 2 callers including me, flop is ATx rainbow, he leads for just 5, i raise to 15, he calls, turn check check, river he bets large, i fold correctly.
tight passive 50nl game
i raise to 2 with JJ, get reraised to 6, i call. flop is AJ7, i check and he bets 3, i call. turn x, check check. River fills me up (7) , i bet 5, get minraised, i call expecting to lose and do so.
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Yes you are losing the minimal, but play like this will win you the minimal the other 99% when you are ahead. A lot of players RR AK and will play those flops exactly the same way. I always want to play for stacks with no flush/straight out there.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
100nl
I limp TT, 1-2 other limpers, TIGHT utg raises to 5, 2 callers including me, flop is ATx rainbow, he leads for just 5, i raise to 15, he calls, turn check check, river he bets large, i fold correctly.
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??
I'd be happy to go broke vs AA here.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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go broke
if you flop your set then if someone can beat it i lose my stack always. otherwise i havent played it aggressivly enough
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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I'm by no means a nutpeddler...just a very good reader of PP 100nl players...I challenge you to catch me missing value when i have a set and am not behind a higher one!
If you think about the betting in the examples I showed, it's quite clear I don't have the best hand...
Or are you stupid
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Edit : It was clear to me I didn't have the best hand. Readless, it is borderline.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Pelion - the original poster didn't give specifics on his hand, so it's hard to judge what kind of value he could be missing out on. I understand what you are saying though.. I would compare it to not playing QQ (preflop) in a way that only KK/AA can play with you, and (against a tight opponent), not playing KK in a way that only AA can play with you.
nutsinho - best of luck to you. To anyone trying to learn on this forum, the examples he gives are absolutely terrible.
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salt3d
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
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Quote:
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I limp TT, 1-2 other limpers, TIGHT utg raises to 5, 2 callers including me, flop is ATx rainbow, he leads for just 5, i raise to 15, he calls, turn check check, river he bets large, i fold correctly.
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I don't like to jump to conclusions. Can you confirm that he showed his AA?
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Alibi
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Paul or DC
Posts: 449
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Because of the turn check check, I can see utg raising with anything.
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TrapperAB: you know, I really should have named myself after the mandibles of a homeless person
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