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martindcx1e
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04-27-2006, 04:59 AM
Post subject: Anyone else use this c/r bluff?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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It seems that this situation is perfect for a c/r bluff against a PFR. It really doesn't matter what I hold here. It's a little scarier with 2 other guys in there, but it's been working for me lately. Anyone see a problem with it?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($3.45)
UTG ($14.30)
UTG+1 ($14.90)
MP1 ($11.15)
MP2 ($3.85)
CO ($4.85)
Button ($6.95)
Hero ($9.30)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 3 , 3 .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, CO raises to $0.2, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15, BB calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10.
Flop: ($0.80) K, 2, K (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets $0.3, Hero raises to $0.9, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, CO folds.
Final Pot: $2
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Lodogg
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stealing your C-bet
Posts: 199
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I like it...Perfect situation to use it. There is a good chance you are ahead anyway.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Looks more like a value-bet c/r in this particular case, lol 
Problem is, at 10NL and sometimes even at 20NL at some tables.. people really call this without the K. With like a flush-draw or 66 or something. Ofcourse this is great.. a big future income awaits you when you c/r your made hands.. but you'll have to stop doing those bluffs then
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Looks more like a value-bet c/r in this particular case, lol
Problem is, at 10NL and sometimes even at 20NL at some tables.. people really call this without the K. With like a flush-draw or 66 or something. Ofcourse this is great.. a big future income awaits you when you c/r your made hands.. but you'll have to stop doing those bluffs then |
Have you tried this move much jack? I suggest you give it a shot. I don't find many people being able to continue in the hand after this, especially when I'm HU w/ the pre-flop raiser. Yes, people are stupid and call bets w/ crap, but I think even the stupid ones realize they need to get out of the hand when c/r'ed on a board like this. Maybe you can't pull it off due to extremely horrible players, but this move has shown success for me so far.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Have you tried this move much jack? I suggest you give it a shot. I don't find many people being able to continue in the hand after this, especially when I'm HU w/ the pre-flop raiser. Yes, people are stupid and call bets w/ crap, but I think even the stupid ones realize they need to get out of the hand when c/r'ed on a board like this. Maybe you can't pull it off due to extremely horrible players, but this move has shown success for me so far.
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I do it only on a rare occasion these days, when the table is too tight to my liking. I thought a bit about why I stopped doing it more often, and I remembered. In part, it's useless at a calling station table. I mean, you do it once, then you figure out they call with shit so you only c/r with made hands. I love these tables.
But I play at unibet, and a lot of players are chronic slowplayers. Maybe this is different at other sites - atleast that's the impression I get from many posts here and hopefully I will soon be able to find out as I move myself - but at my current site, it's uncanny how many people do nothing with their good hands. Some guys will even check a monster to the river for showdown. Others will minraise. Their main strategy seems to be to hope to be bet or bluffed into! So basically paying off all the slowplayers made me stop doing this c/r bluff.
But yeah, if people are more straight-forward value-betters then it's a cool thing to do.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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standard move much underused
better in a HU pot however.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
I do it only on a rare occasion these days, when the table is too tight to my liking. I thought a bit about why I stopped doing it more often, and I remembered. In part, it's useless at a calling station table. I mean, you do it once, then you figure out they call with shit so you only c/r with made hands. I love these tables.
But I play at unibet, and a lot of players are chronic slowplayers. Maybe this is different at other sites - atleast that's the impression I get from many posts here and hopefully I will soon be able to find out as I move myself - but at my current site, it's uncanny how many people do nothing with their good hands. Some guys will even check a monster to the river for showdown. Others will minraise. Their main strategy seems to be to hope to be bet or bluffed into! So basically paying off all the slowplayers made me stop doing this c/r bluff.
But yeah, if people are more straight-forward value-betters then it's a cool thing to do.
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The fact that people slowplay is the reason this works. I check to PFR who bets because "that's what you're supposed to do" and he tells me he probably doesn't have a K because if he did he would slowplay it.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
The fact that people slowplay is the reason this works. I check to PFR who bets because "that's what you're supposed to do" and he tells me he probably doesn't have a K because if he did he would slowplay it.
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Hm, I don't quite follow. In your example above either of these 3 guys could be holding the K at a "slowplaying table". I've seen this way too often - not at all tables ofcourse - and I used to leak money to these guys so much that I now just don't bother anymore. If they don't start value-betting their made hands, I'll just let them check or min-raise their monsters and win tiny pots.
I still use c/r bluffs against people that I see make value bets, and not be idiotic calling stations.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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this is a bad spot to use it because of the two people to act behind you. it is likely they checked a king to the raiser.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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The c/r is really small.. like less then 1/2 pot size. Jacking that up a bit would give you more fold equity on your bluffs and would really bloat the pot size on later streets if they decide to continue. Sounds like conflicting ideas but they really aren't if you think about it.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
this is a bad spot to use it because of the two people to act behind you. it is likely they checked a king to the raiser.
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Ya afterwards I thought I probably got pretty lucky with those extra people in there.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
The c/r is really small.. like less then 1/2 pot size.
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How? Pot = $1.10 when it gets to me, and I put in .90. Am I missing something?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Hm, I don't quite follow. In your example above either of these 3 guys could be holding the K at a "slowplaying table". I've seen this way too often - not at all tables ofcourse - and I used to leak money to these guys so much that I now just don't bother anymore. If they don't start value-betting their made hands, I'll just let them check or min-raise their monsters and win tiny pots.
I still use c/r bluffs against people that I see make value bets, and not be idiotic calling stations.
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I was mainly talking about the move in general - not just this example. I usually do this when I am HU against the PFR, and that's what I meant by "the fact people slowplay is the reason this works."
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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C/R is much to small. You are out of position and if I'm ahead of you in position I'm calling you here w/ a pair, just to see what you do on the turn and if I can steal it from you on the turn. I might even reraise you here. This is the kind of hand I like to be aggressive in, because there is a strong chance you don't have it and because if you do, I will find out pretty fast.
C/R bluff is not a terrible idea, but you can't give me those kinds of odds to stick around or leave the pot size small enough that I'm comfortable taking another shot at it to see how serious you are.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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So is $2 a better amount w/ that kind of action?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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I'm not even gonna do the math, just check raise about 75% of the pot as a general rule.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
I'm not even gonna do the math, just check raise about 75% of the pot as a general rule.
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Why is my raise not 75% of the pot? The pot was $1.10 when it got to me. I put in .90. What am I missing?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Good point Martin, I wasn't paying close attention and my "75%" post needs revision. Right now he only has to call less than 1/3 of the pot to call your raise, like I was talking about before. Raise enough so that he has to call almost 50% of the pot to call your raise. This gives him more room to fold. Hope that makes sense.
So, here I would raise to about 1.20, which means that he has to call almost half the pot to stay in the hand.
Either way, I prefer to bet out then C/R. You can take a shot at the pot while keeping it smaller and a lot of times you can keep it small enough to take another shot on the turn w/out breaking the bank.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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I love using the c/r bluff against a pre-flop raiser. It is expecially good on a flop with a pair because he will almost always try to steal it if you check and its unlikely he has the set. I wouldnt be making this play with 4 people in the pot though. I dont like making this play in small stakes games because people call with nothing on the flop all the time. Some new players take it personally when you re-raise them and will call just because.I see poeple call with Jc 10s on a Qs 4d 2s flop cause they have a runner flush draw I guess.
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