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Analysis from the flop - the all-suited flop

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Dunk

06-02-2005, 06:04 PM Post subject: Analysis from the flop - the all-suited flop

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Metrowest Massachusetts

Posts: 131

A lot of the books and advice start from the pocket cards. If you have AKo, do this. If you have suited connectors, do this.

I'm wondering about approaching it from the angle of the flop. Here's an example I'd like comments on. I don't think any of my thoughts here are super unique, but I think that this approach to strategy mind be good to go with. Maybe other people can volunteer their favorite flops.

The All One Suit Flop
So the flop just came up all diamonds. Everyone now looks around wondering if anyone has a made flush, and tries to remember their cards to see if that red Ace in their hand was a diamond. This seems like a great opportunity to chase people off the hand.

What if your pocket cards are:
made nut flush: You've got the ace, or maybe in a shorthanded game you've got the K or Q. Now it's a matter of getting people to actually contribute the money that you're going to win. Be willing to check postflop and make massage bets on the turn or river.

made flush, but low: You're at risk to get beat by a guy holding a single high diamond, so its push now or play conservative and be ready to bail when a fourth diamond shows.

made a pair or set, but no flush chance: if anyone pushes, are you willing to risk it, 'cause it's likely going to get expensive fast if you run into the made flush.

bluffing: particularly in late position, I'm quite willing to put a good sized bet in here and represent the flush.

anyway, those are just simple notes on the flop.
Other flops I try to mull over as I drive to work:
* two scary high cards, while you pair the third card
* three-straight on the flop, which you have high pair off of
* three-straight on the flop, with you holding a fourth adjacent card (high, or low?)

Note: new guy and very open to constructive criticism, so go ahead and weigh in! I'm here to learn.

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Staple Gun

06-02-2005, 07:58 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Gamblers Anonymous

Posts: 812

Quote:

made flush, but low: You're at risk to get beat by a guy holding a single high diamond, so its push now or play conservative and be ready to bail when a fourth diamond shows.

I actually like betting this one fairly strong, but hoping for a caller who is chasing with nut draw, or you might get reraised by someone who has a set or 2pr. If the turn is blank then I will bet enough so that thier pot odds are horrible, and hope for a call. If the river is another of the same suit you have to use your judgement on what to do a weak bet you gotta call but if they bet pot or more then you accept your suckout and dont lose anymore.

PokerPatNEU

06-02-2005, 08:07 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

Anyone with a made flush here that isnt Q, K, or A high, is probably going to bet the flop from any position to try and get the people holding the Q K or A off the hand right there. Anyone with 2 pair, a set, or better is going to do the same. Thats why in late position i like to take advantage sometimes and bluff representing one of these types of hands (if it is checked around to me), and give whoever is drawing for their big flush bad odds to do it with. At this point, you might as well be ACTUALLY holding the set or 2 pair against their draw. If the 4th suited card comes on the turn or the river, you're beat. If it doesn't, you're gonna be able to get the guy to fold.

The only time this play doesn't work is if someone actually caught the huge flush and slow played it, or you get some foolish guy calling down with top pair or something dumb and doesn't realize how many hands can beat him. The times that you get paid off from people drawing will pay for these few and far between times that someone makes the big flush on the flop. Bluffing these flops from LP is a play that will pay off in the long run if you do it right.

PokerPatNEU

06-02-2005, 08:08 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staple Gun

I actually like betting this one fairly strong, but hoping for a caller who is chasing with nut draw

Definitely a good point. Consider the fact that if you already have a made flush, the guy with the nut draw only has 7 outs when he believes he has 9. You can use this to your advantage if you can put him on the flush draw with any degree of confidence.

fkn2pt

06-04-2005, 04:50 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Sydney Australia

Posts: 35

i reckon postflop play doesn't get nearly enough attention in most poker books or websites. as dunk said there is plenty of info out there for preflop strategy, but not postflop.. especially concerning the nl game rather than the limit game. here are some things that i've discovered that are handy for navigating those more tricky situations where its unclear. most of these apply to the shorthanded game which is the game i've probably spent the most time playing..

you call a raise from a loose aggressive player with a pocket pair and the flop comes low cards.. overbet the pot because he probably has high cards and hasn't paired the board. you don't want him drawing

with a paired board like 669 or QQ7.. if you're in a multiway pot in a full ring game, someone probably will have the trip, whether its high or low. however shorthanded, usually if the trip is low there is a higher chance that people don't have it, since shorthanded, people normally play hands with either one or both high cards. if you're pretty sure no one has the trip, you can normally bluff people off the pot.

if you hold a pair like 88 99 or 1010 and you're faced with a raise from a tight player and you're not sure whether he has unpaired high cards or a high pocket pair, you can normally get a better read on him if you just call his bet and hope the flop comes low cards. sometimes you will hit your set and get paid off big!

raising in late position with any two cards: i normally only do this against players i know will fold on the flop if they have nothing, ie tight players. if they call you on the flop normally this is a sign they have hit and you can back off. i normally use this move occasionally to keep my scoreboard ticking over, because its an obvious move, and if you do it too much people will start to call you down. against tricky players sometimes its worth doing this when you hold a nice preflop starting hand and try and rinse them for money when you hit. i've actually found that raising in first position is better for stealing the blinds, because people haven't actually put money into the pot yet except for the blinds, so they don't feel they've lost anything if they don't call. it also looks like you have a stronger hand if you do it.. lots of people will put you on KK or AA if you're raising in first position and will just fold even if they hold a nice hand.

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Analysis from the flop - the all-suited flop

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