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R3537
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02-28-2008, 07:42 AM
Post subject: Almost busto.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22
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So In the beginning when I first started, I put in like 100 bucks one time, and turned it into 3 grand. Thought I awesome didn't know what BR was didn't know anything. I played the game Pot, pot shove. Pretty much exlusively and got really lucky. I cashed out the 3 grand and put a 100 back in, did okay for a while then found out from here, what BR was and everything. Started practicing it as well as I could.(lowest limit on full tilt is 25) and I played there. I did okay and in a month moved up to 50NL. When I entered this realm, I was maybe a slightly losing player slight winning, not sure. I cashed pretty high out in the 750k sat and figured I might try moving up but due to life I needed the money so I took it out. Finally like a month ago, I decided to come back and I decided to start out again at 50NL. deposited 1000 and decided to go there. Within 3 weeks, I was down to about 450. I thought okay, what am I doing wrong? Looked it up and yeah, some of it was bad beats and the rest was tilting off my money. I redeposited another 400 and decided to have another go. Woo variance. This time comes around I lose A LOT of money FAST. I looked through the hands this time, and I think out of 10 times that I got aces or kks all in pre, I had 2 of them not cracked. The rest? Bad play for sure. At this point like...i'm not exactly super confident with my skills, seeing as how I KNOW and hear constantly how easy it is to play micro stakes.
My question, I guess, is should I even try and continue and if so anyone got good advice?
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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Quote:
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My question, I guess, is should I even try and continue and if so anyone got good advice?
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Poker is a game of discipline and patience. It takes the right mindset, and lots of experience, to learn these skills. Sounds like you kept depositing and each time you were doing it with a smaller and smaller bankroll - this is suicide. I don't know what stakes you were playing with a $400 BR, but playing 25NL for example with that much is giving yourself a very high chance of going busto, especially if you're still needing to learn some basic skills (no offense).
So, read about Bankroll Management, post some problem hands, ask questions = GET BETTER!
Poker is so hard because it's so easy to start thinking you're awesome, and that you can soon become a pro and make millions. The sooner you realize that this really isn't the case, and that it's a game that requires lots of dedication and patience to become great (like any other discipline), the sooner you'll start beating the game.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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1. Withdraw all money on all sites
2. Deposit $50 on PokerStars
3. Play 2nl with a $2 buy-in until you have $100.
4. Play 5nl with a $5 buy-in until you have $250.
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
6. Play 25nl until you have $1500.
7. Play 50nl until you have $3500.
8. Play 100nl, etc.
All the while, study and improve your game. When you make it to 50nl and above the next time around, you'll be good enough to beat it.
Also, don't reply to this post with anything involving you not doing any of the steps above. Your way obviously sucks and loses money, so nobody really cares how you want to do things anymore.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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allabout
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 276
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[quote="spoonitnow"]1. Withdraw all money on all sites
2. Deposit $50 on PokerStars
3. Play 2nl with a $2 buy-in until you have $100.
4. Play 5nl with a $5 buy-in until you have $250.
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
6. Play 25nl until you have $1500.
7. Play 50nl until you have $3500.
8. Play 100nl, etc.
All the while, study and improve your game. When you make it to 50nl and above the next time around, you'll be good enough to beat it.
Also, don't reply to this post with anything involving you not doing any of the steps above. Your way obviously sucks and loses money, so nobody really cares how you want to do things anymore.[/quote]
Spoon you don't have to sugar coat everything. Just say what you mean and we can all move on! 
Seriously this is really really good advice and I hope you take it! The only way to learn is to play a lot (a really lot, not like 20k but 100's of k) of hands and then you'll start to learn why you suck. Then the next step is trying to fix it. Good luck man! Also watch the videos, they really help.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Also, don't reply to this post with anything involving you not doing any of the steps above. Your way obviously sucks and loses money, so nobody really cares how you want to do things anymore.
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I LoL'd, just because so many "one pair" noobie posters (including me during my first month here) go on about how they're sure their approach works in general (just not right now) and why they can ignore the advice from FTR icons. But Spoon, we have no evidence THIS one pair noobie poster is like the twenty-five others we've seen in the last two months. Maybe he'll grow up into a real FTR dude, and learn bankroll management and read your book "How to Really Suck at Poker."
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. Withdraw all money on all sites
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
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I am still playing $10nl after 172K hands and a bankroll that's now north of $1,200... and I STILL find myself in sticky spots where I'm not sure what to do or do the wrong thing. But then maybe I am just a douche. 
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. Withdraw all money on all sites
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
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I am still playing $10nl after 172K hands and a bankroll that's now north of $1,200... and I STILL find myself in sticky spots where I'm not sure what to do or do the wrong thing. But then maybe I am just a douche. |
nit. get some gamble in ya. move up. gogogoo.
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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Continue if you want to learn and practice and put in the time. If you want to have fun and don't want to put in the time, continue anyway. I could use the money. See what I'm saying?
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. Withdraw all money on all sites
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
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I am still playing $10nl after 172K hands and a bankroll that's now north of $1,200... and I STILL find myself in sticky spots where I'm not sure what to do or do the wrong thing. But then maybe I am just a douche. |
Everyone has these moments. What's your winrate at 10nl? Chances are you should probably move up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Not great.... around 3.5PTBB/100. Play FR exclusively, running around 14/10/2 (or trying to....)
Just started dabbling in $25NL but 90% of my play is still with the 10s... I'm waiting for that uninterrupted sense of clarity in all things at the 10NL skillz.
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Not great.... around 3.5PTBB/100. Play FR exclusively, running around 14/10/2 (or trying to....)
Just started dabbling in $25NL but 90% of my play is still with the 10s... I'm waiting for that uninterrupted sense of clarity in all things at the 10NL skillz. |
You will never be able to fully master sticky spots in 10nl. There is no zen like state at each limit were everything makes sense(especially at 10nl because some of them seem like they just escaped for a mental ward)
But again it has a lot to do with being comfortable and only you can decide when you are comfortable to move up(and leaning heavily towards conservative side is positive)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
. I'm waiting for that uninterrupted sense of clarity in all things at the 10NL skillz. |
never gonna happen. Poker isn't that simple.
Give $25nl a shot. Consider it a $125 shot, don't play scared money. Only drop if your br goes below $1075. So it's not how much you lose, it's how much your br changes - rakeback is good... so are bonuses.. and they start to clear at $25nl. You are unlikely to 5 buy-ins unless you change your play. Trust me! Even if you lose a bit, the rakeback will bring it back.
That's me at $50nl at the moment anyway, learning loads!
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
. I'm waiting for that uninterrupted sense of clarity in all things at the 10NL skillz. |
never gonna happen. Poker isn't that simple. |
Sarbox, take the shot when you're ready. I disagree a bit with some of the advice folks are giving you. I was making 3.5 ptBB/100 at NL10 and failed in two attempts at NL25. I went back to NL10 and posted 2 months of 5 ptBB/100 (about 40k hands), and my last 20k hands are north of 7 ptBB/100. I'm going to take my shot after 4k hands (I have a little 25k NL10 challenge I set for myself that is nearly complete).
I will be taking a serious shot at NL25 by Tuesday or Wednesday. But I'm shooting on my terms. And I learned a lot by logging the hands at NL10. I play mainly 6max, by the way, so our win rates aren't equivalent if you're focused on FR - I do follow the fish over there every now and then.
If I were you, I would take the shot when I was ready. You know when you're close to having something click into place in your game. If you're almost there, but not ready, yet, then take your time. The worst thing to do is to get too impatient.
Good luck, and keep us updated when you decide to go "all-in" at NL25!!
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. Withdraw all money on all sites
1.5.Give $100 of it to Wesrman.
2. Deposit $50 on PokerStars
3. Play 2nl with a $2 buy-in until you have $100.
4. Play 5nl with a $5 buy-in until you have $250.
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
6. Play 25nl until you have $1500.
7. Play 50nl until you have $3500.
8. Play 100nl, etc. |
This is GREAT advice.
Good luck, you will get there.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wesrman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. Withdraw all money on all sites
1.5.Give $100 of it to Wesrman.
2. Deposit $50 on PokerStars
3. Play 2nl with a $2 buy-in until you have $100.
4. Play 5nl with a $5 buy-in until you have $250.
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
6. Play 25nl until you have $1500.
7. Play 50nl until you have $3500.
8. Play 100nl, etc. |
This is GREAT advice.
Good luck, you will get there. |
Several people at another form have made the push from 2nl to 10nl is less then a week. I wish i knew how they did it though. they didn't strike it lucky in donkaments either. Str8 ring games and the sng once in a while. One poster at 2p2 grinded 5 bucks to 500 in less then a week
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wesrman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. Withdraw all money on all sites
1.5.Give $100 of it to Wesrman.
2. Deposit $50 on PokerStars
3. Play 2nl with a $2 buy-in until you have $100.
4. Play 5nl with a $5 buy-in until you have $250.
5. Play 10nl until you have $625.
6. Play 25nl until you have $1500.
7. Play 50nl until you have $3500.
8. Play 100nl, etc. |
This is GREAT advice.
Good luck, you will get there. |
Several people at another form have made the push from 2nl to 10nl is less then a week. I wish i knew how they did it though. they didn't strike it lucky in donkaments either. Str8 ring games and the sng once in a while. One poster at 2p2 grinded 5 bucks to 500 in less then a week |
It could be one or more of the following:
1. They have a rigged luckbox
2. They play outside of a decent bankroll
3. They actually play the fucking hands required to do so
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Not great.... around 3.5PTBB/100. Play FR exclusively, running around 14/10/2 (or trying to....)
Just started dabbling in $25NL but 90% of my play is still with the 10s... I'm waiting for that uninterrupted sense of clarity in all things at the 10NL skillz. |
You're fine, move up. =)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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spoon i assume that they just beatthe game at a decent clip and play a crap load of hands. I just can't see how they get the hands in. Lets assome you are beating 2nl at 5BB/100 or 10 cents per/100. You would need to play several K hands to even get to 100 bucks much less 500. Sngs seem to be a key factor in the early going.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
spoon i assume that they just beatthe game at a decent clip and play a crap load of hands. I just can't see how they get the hands in. Lets assome you are beating 2nl at 5BB/100 or 10 cents per/100. You would need to play several K hands to even get to 100 bucks much less 500. Sngs seem to be a key factor in the early going.
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Spenda turned $200 into almost $2,000 in one month, and he didn't even play the micros every day. He did it as a promotional operation when he was helping start grinder school. He played about 10k hands each level, pwning them at nearly 10 ptBB/100, starting at NL10 and adhering to strict br management guidelines.
I think Spoon could probably do it something like this in a week, since he plays more hands per day than most of us do per decade 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
spoon i assume that they just beatthe game at a decent clip and play a crap load of hands. I just can't see how they get the hands in. Lets assome you are beating 2nl at 5BB/100 or 10 cents per/100. You would need to play several K hands to even get to 100 bucks much less 500. Sngs seem to be a key factor in the early going.
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Whine whine whine. Bullshit. Whine whine. Bullshit bullshit.
Okay sorry, natural reaction after reading the Beginner's Circle for a while.
If you play tight as a 4 year old's asshole and never 3-bet preflop unless you have KK+ then you can easily beat 5nl for 10 ptbb/100. If you don't believe me then ask wesrman. He's been doing it, and [no offense to him] he's really new to the game and isn't some omfg great player.
Here's how they put the hands in:
1. Get something to drink
2. Sit at computer
3. Play poker
Wow it's the amazing getting-in-hands trick.
Building a bankroll requires putting in hands (i.e. relative work). If you don't like it then don't play.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Whine whine whine. Bullshit. Whine whine. Bullshit bullshit.
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This made me LoL. 
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riverturnflop
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Hang in there.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Okay... so spent my weekend on $25 instead of $10... (to get some "gambool" up in here...)
Pretty solid... clocked 2,500 FR hands, ran 14.5/9/1.8 for 4.41PTBB/100. Would have been better 'cept I got bitch-slapped by a set over set deep stacked.
Think maybe I'll stay here for a while...
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