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AKo: Top two on flop fold? :(

  
 
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Gobbatino
Old 04-10-2010, 08:05 PM     Post subject: AKo: Top two on flop fold? :( #1 (permalink)  
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Villain here is 14/10 with 3.6% 3bet. Aggression on the flop is 28% with AF of 1.1. He folds to c-bets 60%. Sample is decent. Only note of relevance is my first note on him saying just standard TAGG.

His 3bet range does include some AQ and lower pairs but I can't see him check raising them. Is this a standard fold or wat.

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Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A
4 folds, Hero bets $0.75, 2 folds, BB raises to $2.25, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.60) 6, K, A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3.50, BB raises to $10, Hero hates life
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surviva316
Old 04-10-2010, 08:12 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 def not a "standard fold" because he's repping 3 combos that beat you...3, and it's CO v blinds. it seems really really really really hard to fold here given it takes very very few AQ/QJhh type hands for us to have proper equity here. i flat here.

my real question is if the turn is a blank and he bets and the river is a blank and he checks, do we vbet?
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d0zer
Old 04-10-2010, 08:45 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 3 combos? he's repping AA & KK which is 2.

Hero calls. I also call a turn shove, check behind if checked to and call a river shove.

You're chopping a fair bit, and picking off random bluffs.

I also 4bet pre & stack off fwiw
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surviva316
Old 04-10-2010, 09:06 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 lololololol i completely misread preflop. wow that makes my entire post completely retarded. i agree that we're chopping a lot here even though it's the most retarded way for villain to play AK
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spoonitnow
Old 04-10-2010, 09:07 PM #5 (permalink)  
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oskar
Old 04-11-2010, 12:24 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 I could find a fold here. It's a really weired line as a bluff, and you are getting destroyed by his value range, which is effectively 6 combos. If there's even a tiny chance he could show up with something stupid, it becomes a call.
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rpm
Old 04-11-2010, 01:24 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 i like a call on the flop because he may have been reacting to your ATS% by 3betting preflop, and then flopped air (say 89s) so decided to checkraise. if he leads the turn a significant amount i think we almost have to fold, really. you said you have a decent sample so villain is at least a bit of a regular, you said he's straightforward and taggy. these guys dont lead the turn in a pot which has been 3bet pre and check/raised on the flop with one pair, surely? although once you call on the flop you probably have to get your stack in because you are chopping 66% of the time and the pot will be bloated to roughly $25. kind of sucks because your hand is the bottom of villain's nut range in this scenario, so its like his range is freerolling yours, but we are chopping 66% of the time so.. i think:
call flop
call turn shove if he shoves, if not check behind (might induce some spazz if he's ever bluffing here)
call river shove if he shoves, if not feel pretty comfortable value betting because he's unlikely to waste two opportunities to get it in with AA,KK after you called his checkraise on the flop.

i wouldnt feel too bad if we get it in and he has KK. 99.9% of the player pool at 25nl would have lost a stack in your spot with that hand too.
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rpm
Old 04-11-2010, 01:25 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 ^^^ what an indecisive bastard
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!Luck
Old 04-11-2010, 04:03 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 If you can't commit on this flop with AK with so much money in the pot, you shouldn't be calling preflop.
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-11-2010, 04:55 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 jesus christ no

just take the line that will keep his range widest and take a note
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:10 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !Luck View Post
If you can't commit on this flop with AK with so much money in the pot, you shouldn't be calling preflop.
I like this answer.

And m2m's cuz it's mine, but less specific.
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Gobbatino
Old 04-11-2010, 06:25 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Hrm... I get it that it's only two combos. But who the fuck check raises AK here. After such a small preflop 3bet; it's super tiny. Villain is standard tagg, not going to be trying funky shit here.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

41,580 games 0.005 secs 8,316,000 games/sec

Board: 6c Kh As
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.348% 32.18% 33.17% 13379 13792.50 { KK+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 34.652% 01.48% 33.17% 616 13792.50 { AKo }

Is it really that easy of a call for all of you? There's pretty big leverage in his bet and we're chopping at best.
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Gobbatino
Old 04-11-2010, 06:27 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !Luck View Post
If you can't commit on this flop with AK with so much money in the pot, you shouldn't be calling preflop.
It's not that simple, it's the specific line this specific villain is taking. Of course I'll commit on that flop with AK in a majority of spots, it's an awesome flop...
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Micro2Macro
Old 04-11-2010, 07:17 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 its 25nl you will see your fellow tag regulators doing lots of retarded shit
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Imthenewfish
Old 04-28-2010, 03:01 AM #15 (permalink)  
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I'd ship it and pray to god he's making some retarded play with a weaker ace
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:50 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 That's probably a call for me.

I would have raised to $1 preflop, called his raise.

Check to induce bluff on flop (you're hoping for a weak ace, which is most likely what he has).

Then push reraise 3x his bet depending on how much stack he has if he decides to bet.

If he doesn't bet, then 3/4 of pot on turn should do it.

If he calls you down, most of the time he loses, if he folds, he loses. The only hard decision you'll face is if he decides to reshove you all in or do a giant raise (which seems to be the case here), then you may indeed be facing AA or KK.

If I did all of that, such as bet strong before flop (which you didn't do), reraise on top of him showing significant strength (which, once again, you weren't quite there yet), and yet he still decides to shove his remaining chips, then yea, I'd probably fold (depending on your chip stack and pot odds). Heck, even then, you'd be surprised how many people would shove with a weaker ace like AQ or AJ or something. More often than not. I would highly recommending calling/all in here.

I know my plays are often very aggressive such as in this case, but you get payed off in the long run as you protect yourself from steals and passive plays while inducing your opponent in calling or bluffing with mediocre hands.


EDIT: I forgot that he was BB and you were in late position, in which case, your play is pretty spot on up and until the fold. I would push all in there once I saw the $10 raise.
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kmind
Old 04-28-2010, 06:17 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 Everyone bets flop?
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Sabr1988
Old 04-28-2010, 08:13 AM #18 (permalink)  
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I think it depends on your read of your opponent. The scenario looks for me as following: he is a agressive player, he is BB, your raising and lets assume he thinks ur trying to steal his blind. He got mayb A mid kicker or so, mayb even AQ, so if it was me that were playing that hand i would just call, after flop, check turn, if he bets, i reraise, he would then probably call if he gets suspicious, or mayb even reraise AI, i would call with no doubt, no flush draws and hopefully he dont have a straight draw with that agression, and no sets, if he had a set i think he would try to trap you and not be so agressive so that u would fold.

I have been playing for a little over 1 year, so my comment may not be usefull, but i have been working on how to read players, and this really seems like i said earlier, he thinks ur stealing blinds, NOT having ace or king, and maybe even he tried to play like he had an ace, or even if lets say he have A-(6-Q) you woulod still beat him. It's very important to get some reads on your opponents, if you play cashgame play the same table for a while, so that you have time to adjust your play for their playing style.

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Hoopy
Old 04-28-2010, 11:37 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind View Post
Everyone bets flop?
If we check back we rep something 99-QQ and KQ right? Might him induce him to bluff/bet with some air/underpairs on the turn but if hero's been stealing frequently he may spew off on the flop anyway because he thinks we're FOS.

Flat flop call shove on later street - river vb not sure.
 
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