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AKo 5NL , How to lay it down...

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TheBlueKnave

10-13-2009, 04:19 PM Post subject: AKo 5NL , How to lay it down...

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 39

The last hand I posted was an example of what happens to me if I play passively; this one is the opposite. The question is the same: what *should* I have done to lay this down?

Here's the thought process:

1) I've got a good hand pre-flop. Let's play it. Perhaps I should have raised there? What information would that have given me? At any rate, I was thinking there's already two people in the game, there may be a good hand (there was) let's see the flop.

2) The flop gives me mediocre draw prospects: gutshot straight and longshot flush. After one check, I thought I'd make a small bet, see what kind of response that drew. Perhaps I should have been the passive one? What information could I have gained?

3) At the turn, I pair up my ace. Now I actually have a hand! And a better flush draw! And the straight draw is still out there! I get a little excited and make a larger bet. Perhaps this is where I should have put the brakes on? Started thinking more closely about the *other* good hand? At this point I'm already beat, and I don't have the wits to figure it out.

4) Finally, I make the flush on the river. In another world this would have been a bad beat for the villain, but in my world this is justice for him and a harsh lesson in reality for me.

So... thoughts on how I could have handled this better?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($5.21)
UTG ($4.96)
MP ($1.16)
CO ($17.40)
Button ($6.69)
SB ($5.04)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, K

UTG bets $0.15, 3 folds, SB calls $0.13, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.45) J

, 10

, 9

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.29, 1 fold, SB calls $0.29

Turn: ($1.03) A

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.73, SB calls $0.73

River: ($2.49) J

(2 players)
SB bets $3.87 (All-In), Hero calls $3.87

Total pot: $10.23 | Rake: $0.50

Results:
SB had J

, J

(four of a kind, Jacks).
Hero had A

, K

(flush, Ace high).
Outcome: SB won $9.73

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Kbryce23

10-13-2009, 04:38 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Michigan

Posts: 152

Some reads/stats would be nice for UTG and SB. I am either calling or 3betting based on reads on villians. You bet the turn to see how they would respond? That's a bad way to think. That flop hits a UTG opening range pretty hard, just check and hope to hit on the turn.

JKDS

10-13-2009, 04:48 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Chandler, AZ

Posts: 1,024

keep posting your thought process, advice on that is much more helpful than advice on any hand.

@preflop: we could raise, but your thinking about it wrong. We wouldnt be raising to see what info we get, we'd be raising because we figure to be ahead of villain's 3b calling range/ 4b range. Thinking "there maybe a good hand, so lets go" isnt quite what we want in terms of range thinking...but its getting there.

@flop: dont bet to see what response we get, or be afraid of checking cuz we dont gain information. We have a 4 outter, a back draw draw, and overs, on one of the scariest flops ever. Think about how this particular flop will hit both sb and utg in terms of the hands theyre likely to have.

@turn: well, you bet 70 into 100, you say this is a larger bet...but if we're betting for value, could we bet more and still get a call from sb's range?

@river: This is a spot where we have to consider relative hand strength. Ie, how often does villain end here with J9, JT, JJ, AJ, compared to the rest of his range that might open shove this river on a four flush board. Consider how often he does this with the Qc as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OngBonga

But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.

surviva316

10-14-2009, 02:54 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms

Posts: 1,625

surviva316 will become famous soon enough

i'd def stop thinking of betting so much in terms of "gaining information" and so forth. this might be a nice side effect of betting, but it should never be the sole purpose. i feel like punching norman chad in the face whenever he starts talking about "OMG HOW CAN YOU NOT BET THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU GAIN INFORMATION!"

this article's pretty good: http://poker-strategy.flopturnriver....L-Player-3.php

i recommend the other 4 articles from spenda's biggest leaks series too

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

Stacks

10-14-2009, 03:47 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,605

Didn't really look at the hand, or read anything, but my thoughts. Quit assuming that just because you lost a hand that you needed to "get away from it". You are going to lose hands, and among those hands, there are going to be plenty that you lose even after playing correctly. There will be some you played correctly, got the money in as a favorite, and lost. There will be some that you played correctly, got the money in as an underdog, and lose. Winning or losing the hand, really doesn't have as much barring on whether it was played correctly as you seem to think.

Also, titling hand history threads as you have this one, as well showing the results, lead to decreased discussion. Before entering the thread, it was apparent that you lost the hand, which can lead to results oriented thinking. Why do we need to know whether you won or lost the hand to come to correct conclusions on whether the hand was played correctly? The answer is we don't, so don't provide it.

Ztech

10-14-2009, 05:13 AM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: Staying out of the FTR Community threads and sticking to the pokerz

Posts: 58

I would 3 bet pre because we are OOP and have a solid hand against his range and we want to start building the pot a bit.

Flop absolutely is not good for our hand and is all over villians range. If you cbet and he flats then exercise pot control. Also if we get played back at from this point on should be easy fold. I would be very concerned about AJ or KQ hands.

On the river why are we calling? Massive overbet, this is either air or nuts as this is played.
If you have a read then make the hero call, otherwise look for a better spot, you trapped yourself on this one.

As to how to lay it down, there is this button that is labeled "Fold". Click on it. LOLz.....jk.

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AKo 5NL , How to lay it down...

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