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Nut_Bob
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01-30-2005, 09:51 AM
Post subject: AK vs AA
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sweden
Posts: 20
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I resently had AKs from middle position, and ofcource did a preflop raise (a big one) then I guy reraised me from late position with 4-5 times the amount I raised with, this guy had been limping all night and never raised before the flop, I called, there was no flush draw but an ace showed up, anyway I lost, he had AA , (trips with the A on the flop)now im not certain AK suited or not is a good hand to raise or call a raise with in the first place, and I have revalued it heavyly, after all, AK is not even a pair, and if u dont hit 2 kings you are a sucker against AA, what do you think, and how would you play this hand? 
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Don't let one big loss with AKs make you lose confidence with the hand.
It is a monster, you should be making big raises with it, calling bigger raises etc. If you do happen to run into AA, well that's just unfortunate.
That guy could just have easily had QQ, JJ, another AK, maybe even AQ.
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Mony B
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01-30-2005, 03:35 PM
Post subject: dont hate
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#3 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 192
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AKs is a great hand, so you ran into a pocket aces. If you wont play AKs cause you are afraid of running into pocket Aces then what unpaired preflop hand will you play? If you got raised with KQs after your raise and called and hit a king and then loose to AA, are you not going to play KQs aswell? Tell the person who beat you good hand and move on, AKs is a monster, if you feel like you are beat fold otherwise raise like hell.
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ectomorph
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 21
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AKs is a pretty big hand UNLESS you think youre up against AA or KK, and you're still a coinflip against pocket pairs so dont OVERvalue this hand. You said a rock reraised you 4x your "big" preflop raise... What does that mean to you?? Most likely he has AA or KK. Even if he has QQ do you really want to coinflip for that amount out of position? And unless you flop a flush (118 to 1 against) youre still guessing. Most of the power in AK lies in making the OTHER guy decide if he wants to coinflip or not preflop , if he puts it back on you youre most likey beat and should fold. Overplaying AK is a leak in alot of players game, fix it and you'll be ahead of all of them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwarfman1990
Don't let one big loss with AKs make you lose confidence with the hand.
It is a monster, you should be making big raises with it, calling bigger raises etc. If you do happen to run into AA, well that's just unfortunate.
That guy could just have easily had QQ, JJ, another AK, maybe even AQ.
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Yeah, you cant let one bad experience hinder the strength of the hand... Yesterday I had KK three times, each time it got cracked... one time it got cracked on a .25/.50 NL table when I raised it to $5 preflop and someone called with A6 offsuit and caught an ace.... but I wouldnt play it any differently... Sometimes you just gotta lay monster down... If you doubt your hand at any time there is a good possibility that its beat...
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Yeldud
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 149
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Personally, I think AK is the most over valued hand in poker. Alarm bells should have gone off in your head when a player that has been calling all night comes back over the top of you.
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If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek
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Nut_Bob
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sweden
Posts: 20
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i know, i will probably raise with AK again, but what would you have done in this situation, do you think i was crazy to call? Yeldud said Alarm bells should have gone off in my head,lol, now after a agree with that and it would have if it was a good player but this guy played very poorly and was loosing big, I had a feeling he was going on tilt or something, or he was going to put me on the test,
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Radashack
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 522
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nut_Bob
i know, i will probably raise with AK again, but what would you have done in this situation, do you think i was crazy to call? Yeldud said Alarm bells should have gone off in my head,lol, now after a agree with that and it would have if it was a good player but this guy played very poorly and was loosing big, I had a feeling he was going on tilt or something, or he was going to put me on the test,
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If he was poor player this should have been even more of a warning sign. Remember even retards can win with Aces  .
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aleksandr
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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Remember this:
AA dominates AK (lose your stack 4 times)
KK is slightly better (lose your stack once)
All other pocket pairs are 60-40 coinflips (lose your stack twice)
AK dominates AQ, AJ, AT, A9, KQ, KJ, KT, K9 (Win your stack 16 times - 2 each)
AK beats most other hands (Win the postflop pot regularly)
So for every 6 stacks you lose on AK, you win 16, and you ALWAYS want to see the flop with it, especially suited.
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Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
Money: $31
SNGs: 0
MTTs: 0
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aleksandr
Remember this:
AA dominates AK (lose your stack 4 times)
KK is slightly better (lose your stack once)
All other pocket pairs are 60-40 coinflips (lose your stack twice)
AK dominates AQ, AJ, AT, A9, KQ, KJ, KT, K9 (Win your stack 16 times - 2 each)
AK beats most other hands (Win the postflop pot regularly)
So for every 6 stacks you lose on AK, you win 16, and you ALWAYS want to see the flop with it, especially suited.
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I haven't had dinner yet, so my brain may be starved of glucose. But I don't get this.
Where do you get losing 4 stacks from AA vs. AK? And the rest?
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Yeldud
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 149
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nut_Bob
i know, i will probably raise with AK again, but what would you have done in this situation, do you think i was crazy to call? Yeldud said Alarm bells should have gone off in my head,lol, now after a agree with that and it would have if it was a good player but this guy played very poorly and was loosing big, I had a feeling he was going on tilt or something, or he was going to put me on the test,
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What was the betting sequence on the flop? Did this go to showdown or did you fold?
To answer your question on calling, it depends on the reads. From your original post it sounded as if this player was a tight player limping all night and then bam re-raises huge pre-flop - WARNING! Putting him as a loose player possibly going on tilt, calling is not bad. I probably would have called as this hand has the potential to be a monster, but you have to know when to get rid of it, which is why I am curious to the flop, turn, and river betting sequence.
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If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek
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Nut_Bob
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sweden
Posts: 20
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yeldud
What was the betting sequence on the flop? Did this go to showdown or did you fold?
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I raised 4 times bb, then he reraised me 4-5 times my preflop raise, wich was all the chips i got left that i logged in with, and i called 
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Nut_Bob
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sweden
Posts: 20
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aleksandr
Remember this:
AA dominates AK (lose your stack 4 times)
KK is slightly better (lose your stack once)
All other pocket pairs are 60-40 coinflips (lose your stack twice)
AK dominates AQ, AJ, AT, A9, KQ, KJ, KT, K9 (Win your stack 16 times - 2 each)
AK beats most other hands (Win the postflop pot regularly)
So for every 6 stacks you lose on AK, you win 16, and you ALWAYS want to see the flop with it, especially suited.
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very nice statistics, intresting, where did you get this numbers from? simulations? I really dont trust simulations when there is also psygology involved, but very intresting 
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aleksandr
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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That was just guestimation. I figured those for the hands that you might get reraised with in that situation.
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Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
Money: $31
SNGs: 0
MTTs: 0
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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that big of a reraise, you're a coinflip at best in most situations. i'd fold, especially since he put you all-in, and you have no leverage to get him to fold later if he does have the better hand.
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Pyroxene
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 236
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zangief
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aleksandr
Remember this:
AA dominates AK (lose your stack 4 times)
KK is slightly better (lose your stack once)
All other pocket pairs are 60-40 coinflips (lose your stack twice)
AK dominates AQ, AJ, AT, A9, KQ, KJ, KT, K9 (Win your stack 16 times - 2 each)
AK beats most other hands (Win the postflop pot regularly)
So for every 6 stacks you lose on AK, you win 16, and you ALWAYS want to see the flop with it, especially suited.
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I haven't had dinner yet, so my brain may be starved of glucose. But I don't get this.
Where do you get losing 4 stacks from AA vs. AK? And the rest? |
I am not exactly sure how aleksandr arrived at his numbers; but for reference:
AA vs AKs = 7.2 : 1
KK vs AKs = 1.9 : 1
other pairs vs AKs = 1.1 : 1 (as an aggregate)
All other Ax, Axs, Kx, Kxs vs AKs = 1 : 3 (as an aggregate)
All other hands vs AKs = 1 : 2 (as an aggregate)
Numbers computed using Poker Stove.
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Pyroxene
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