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scgolfer
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12-03-2004, 01:21 AM
Post subject: AK how to play out of position?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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Are you destine to lose a big portion of your stack in NL when you play AKs out of position and your heads up, and your opponent catches a set when you catch an A or a K in a raised preflop pot? I dont see how you cant? Is there a way? Please tell??
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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Are you destine to lose a big portion of your stack in NL when you play AKs out of position and your heads up, and your opponent catches a set when you catch an A or a K in a raised preflop pot?
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Only if your name is scgolfer. Decent poker players can get away from this though.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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scgolfer
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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Lay off the sarcasm asshole, it was a question on how to get a read on someone. And I didnt say all I said a large portion. I guess you fold when they cold call you twice ????
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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ryoung11
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16
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a set is really hard to read so if u pick it up then u fold it. i mean i dont c a question here. if u think ur hand is beat fold it...
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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sets are probably the hardest hand to read from the opponent. unless you know the opponent very well i don't think you can possibly tell if someone's flopped a set. after all, they might be reraising with overpairs, TPTK, 2 pair, a draw, so many things.
but if there's anything, if you bet the pot, and they reraise you double, most of the time this is telling you they have at the very least TPTK. if they call flop and turn, you should be worried about being slowplayed. but at this point you're pot committed and screwed anyways if you fold.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Depends on the table. On a real weak/tight/passive table, TPTK or bottom two pair become great second best hands when faced with an allin or any suitable aggression.
If the table is real loose, fishy and have a gay old time, you're basically losing what he wants you to lose. Just hope you can pick up some outs along the way.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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There's no definitive way to avoid any hand like this. Someone flops a weird straight, a set, a low 2 pair against your top pair top kicker - what can you do? Same as in any hand: you bet reasonably hard for information. If you seem to be getting smooth-called or even raised, you have to seriously consider the possibility that your hand is beaten, and let it go.
Top pair top kicker will make you a lot of money as a rule, but it's far from impregnable. Analyze the board and the pre-flop betting. A lot of people like to limp pocket pairs, so if they were as passive as possible pre-flop and all the sudden are calling you down or raising you post-flop, you could be in trouble.
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Molinero
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In The General Vicinity of Dallas
Posts: 230
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Quote:
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Are you destine to lose a big portion of your stack in NL when you play AKs out of position and your heads up, and your opponent catches a set when you catch an A or a K in a raised preflop pot?
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Well...who did the raising?
If you did (which I would with AK, position be damned), and he calls you preflop, but raises on the flop -- even if you catch an ace -- you might give him credit for having called with a pair and flopped a set.
Then again, many players will raise pre-flop with ANY pocket pair -- especially if they have position. And many raisers will continue their agression after the flop, even if they miss. It all comes down to what you put the guy on initially, based on how you've seen him play.
As everyone else has said (in some form), if you think you're beat, lay it down. If you've got TPTK and think you're up against a set or two pair, that shouldn't be a hard decision.
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astrodon
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 133
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This is a good question. In Sklanskey, Miller, Malmuth book they advise that if you have a positive EV along with sufficient Pot Equity, PO, IO then you must play "regardless of the outcome." It is the long term game you are desiring to conquer, not necessarily one hand in one game. They say the only way to do that is by the manner stated.
Now given, this is in limit poker not NL. At any rate, it takes as much nerve to lay down a good hand as it does to bet one, maybe more... It is the difference between knowledge and discipline. For my money discipline is more profitable in the long run.
Most times it is not a question of wheather you have the balls; do you have the nuts?!
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Education is what is left when you have forgotten everything you learned in school
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FlyingSaucy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching the kids
Posts: 1,603
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Nice new avatar dale.
You're right scgolfer. This is very, very hard to get away from.
So you're holding AKs heads up in the SB. You raise preflop, the dude calls. Flop is K64. You bet it big, and the guy calls. You're thinking, maybe he also has made his pair of kings, or maybe he thinks you're just taking a stab at it with high card ace and he's trying to snap off your bluff because he hit bottom pair. So you push back at him a little heavier on the turn. He calls. Crap. What does it mean? In your mind you'd think he's raising you with two pair. Why does he just call? So you put out another bet on the river, and he raises. You're pot comitted and officially screwed, because he's going to turn over 66.
Heads up can sometimes be a crap shoot. That's why with AKs, at least in SnG's late in the game, it is worth it to push preflop and hope your guy is not in the mood to play the coin flip game with his low PP. Particularly if you are the big stack.
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