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Borax
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04-04-2005, 10:02 AM
Post subject: AK-flop A - getting raised
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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0.25/0.5$ NL
I hold AKs and raise 4BB preflop getting 3 callers.
Flop comes (2 6 A) rainbow, I bet the pot and get two folds
before a typical fish raises all in for 15$ more.
Should I call or fold?
What if there was another player left also, call, reraise or fold?
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sinky
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
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I think it depends on what you mean by "typical fish". If he is maniac, raising and re-raising all the time then I would call the $15 all in. Probably just as likely he has AQ (or worse) rather than 2 pair or a set. Against more passive opposition I am folding.
If the all in has already been called in front of me, then I am folding. I don't want to be in a multiway pot with only a pair.
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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I had a good read on the fish here, meaning:
1) He would chase at really bad odds for any straight or flush.
2) He would see alot of flops playing hands like 96o 52o etc.
3) He would bluff all the way to the river with 86s (=nothing) against 2-3 other players.
4) I was waiting for a hand to take him out and thought maybe it was this one.
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Dunk
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Metrowest Massachusetts
Posts: 131
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Well, with the All-In he's going to get all the cards he wants once you call, so that's to your disadvantage if he's chasing a low-straight. The A26 is potentially scary - with someone like that he might have called your preflop with K3s or 45s or such silliness.
Anyway, I'd say call him and hope he busts himself chasing a straight. If calling him is going to kill your stack, that'd be tougher.
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Note: new guy and very open to constructive criticism, so go ahead and weigh in! I'm here to learn.
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richardwe
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 43
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He might have 2 pair already, but either way with your K as veryvery nice kicker I would call
I wooldnt fear the street but its also possible
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The winner always wins
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{This post has been removed}
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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higher limits? I say fold.
At $.25 $.50 blinds, I see him with A J, A Q...especially considering the information you gave us on his play.
I say call.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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How much more is it to call?
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
But remember that you raised with A/K in the first place to catch either the ace or the King. You did it in this case so roll with it
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I don't think this is the right way to look at things. Yes, he is hoping to flop an ace or a king but that doesn't mean his hand is invincible if he does. I'm not saying he shouldn't call in this particular situation, but thinking of top pair top kicker as some unbeatable hand which you should never fold on the flop is pretty absurd.
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{This post has been removed}
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Where did I say you instantly fold to a raise? I said the hand is not invincible. Just because you "achieved what you hoped to accomplish" does not mean you have the best hand, which is the real question, not "do I have a pair?" And it's not correct to think "if he has a pocket pair, he'll only flop a set 12% of the time, so it's awfully unlikely that he has a set now that I'm getting raised." The right question is, "how likely is he to have a set given that he limped in, called my raise, and is now suddenly coming over the top?" taking into consideration whatever other relevant information there is available.
Anyways, you're basically arguing against a point that I never made.
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{This post has been removed}
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Izenra
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 17
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Once, me first raiser, raise Ak, get two caller. The flop bring me an K. Great, beat 3/4 the pot, get raise, get RE-raise, I fold,
turn out one of them had not much ( something like TT) and the other AA  .
Yea you really need to read the player in such case. I think he probably had 2 pair or such since he went all in ( I think he would've call with AJ-AQ)
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Borax
2) He would see alot of flops playing hands like 96o 52o etc.
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nothing wrong with junk hands, its fun to bust a larger stack with crap hands and listen to them whine about playing junk.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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If you play every junk hand I think it's a problem...
Anyway, I called and he showed a set of 2's, I got a K on the turn but lost the hand. Given my read I think I would do it again. With another player maybe not.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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I'm wtih rippy here - If you fold AK to this raise you're playing it like it's A2 (a bad hand unless you make two pair), and I'm guessing you don't even play A2. If you are folding to aggresion on this flop after raising with AK, you should not raise with AK.
Unless you have some sort of mega read that the guy is a rock and would not reraise unless he had top pair beat, you call here.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Borax
If you play every junk hand I think it's a problem...
Anyway, I called and he showed a set of 2's, I got a K on the turn but lost the hand. Given my read I think I would do it again. With another player maybe not.
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no but if i sit at a table and some obnoxious guy on a larger then the max buyin stack is talking smack and what not, i might call his raises preflop ready to double up.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I fold this if I don't know the player well. I'm better off losing to this bluff now and calling it later when I better understand it, than calling and realizing he was betting on a set of 6's, 2's, A's or two pair. If he wants your $4 that bad then let him have it. If he's a maniac he'll give it back to you anyway.
Here's the key to me... He is putting you on ace face. He knows you have the ace and strong kicker. He went all in. Doesn't that tell you something? That bet just SCREAMS "Please Call so I can rape you!" Don't let pride cause you to not lay down AK just because it hurt your feelings that he has you beat. Calling out of spite will only cause you $15 more.
Lay this down.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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melinda27
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 165
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4x 4(.50)=8+8=16
bet = 15 so 15 to win 39 if you think he has AQ or AJ half the time then its an easy call. I go with easy call.
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hazelblue
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 76
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AK is situational.
In Hold'em, ANY hand can be beat...whether it be AKo, AKs, AA, or even junk hands like J2.
TPTK can be hard to play, at least for me. Depending on how big my stack is, I may or may not have called his all-in. Is it worth risking TPTK for a weak two pair or even trips? Depends on who you're up against.
Based on what you're saying, though, I would've called his all-in.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
I'm wtih rippy here - If you fold AK to this raise you're playing it like it's A2 (a bad hand unless you make two pair), and I'm guessing you don't even play A2. If you are folding to aggresion on this flop after raising with AK, you should not raise with AK.
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He doesn't play A2, but the fish does, and the fish also plays A6. If a typical passive fish all the sudden pushes all-in, he almost always has 2 pair or better.
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ekillian
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 235
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Borax
2) He would see alot of flops playing hands like 96o 52o etc.
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nothing wrong with junk hands, its fun to bust a larger stack with crap hands and listen to them whine about playing junk. |
You can't bust a larger stack.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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He doesn't play A2, but the fish does, and the fish also plays A6. If a typical passive fish all the sudden pushes all-in, he almost always has 2 pair or better.
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I'm with Johnny here. You are usually going to be behind in this situation and left looking at $0.00 and thinking about how great your kicker was.
Push all in , yeh sure. Call all in - almost always a bad idea without at least 2 pr on the flop. If you call this all in, then YOU are the "fish".
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Maverick
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
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TPTK is normally fairly straight forward for me. I realise AK can be an exception to the rule.
AKs I will raise preflop, Axs I usually call (position, anything else strongish is call, KJo, QJo)
If flop is raggy its just a matter of firing off a 3/4 pot bet and going from there, I am betting for info after all. If I take it down there, fine. Im not getting too attached to top pair.
All things considered, im usually happy to take down the pot at the flop with top pair.
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