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DBL0SVN
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05-29-2005, 05:08 AM
Post subject: Advantages of PLHE vs NLHE
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 230
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Anyone here play pot limit? What are the main differences from No limit? Are the basic ring or tournament strategies much the same?
I wonder whether there is more post-flop play with PL since you can't go AI as easily? If so it might be a good place to practise my post-flop game - a weakness of mine at present.
Any thoughts?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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No difference except for the smaller raises preflop. Everything else plays about the same. Of course, I've only played PL off and on.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Also stuff like building a pot pre-flop with med pocket pairs is more important since you can't just put down a silly over-bet.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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Yeah, its a little harder to get reads cause people can't make "silly overbets". But i don't play PL alot.
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fkn2pt
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 35
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big pairs go down in value, suited connectors go up.
bets limited to the size of the pot mean that you can't shut out straight / flush draws.
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Legendash
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Full House
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crypto 6max 100NL
Posts: 611
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That's not really true, to draw to a flush you're typically looking at 4:1 odds, if there aren't too many people in the pot you should be able to give draws pretty bad odds, how many people bet more than pot size to drive out draws in NL?
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"[This theory] is only useful for helping to calculate your luck odds. If you have a good read that you have a numerical advantage against your opponent, that your hand is "luckier"..."
Copyright, Youngdro 2007.
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Ibsu Bai Hui
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8
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If you put your opponent on a river flush draw you should give him 19% or 9 outs as opposed to 25%. If the pot is 20 then a bet of 6 should technically take him out. Am I right? Edit: best make it 8 :P
Btw that Family Guy quote owns =)
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Technically.
I make it a bit more, though, since I tend to pay it off a little more often than I should.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Legendash
That's not really true, to draw to a flush you're typically looking at 4:1 odds, if there aren't too many people in the pot you should be able to give draws pretty bad odds, how many people bet more than pot size to drive out draws in NL?
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problem with overbetting in NL, you are giving flush/straight draws large implied odds to draw out... as in PL implied odds go down a little bit.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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1rainbow
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 27
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i don't believe there are any advantages to pl, i don't like playing it but i do in trnys, too many ppl stay with garbage
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RESPECT #1
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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There are differences, but they're more prevalent in omaha when hands can change on a whim. I can't play NL Omaha because of this, your nuts shrivel up on the turn/river often enough to where it doesn't work out.
I do notice in PL for any game that the pots grow somewhat faster because it's "less" to call each round.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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1rainbow
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 27
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yes ur right, & another thing i have noticed lately is that in pl trnys, they seem to lose a lot of players really early, unlike nl
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RESPECT #1
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I imagine there's more limp-raising from early position in pot limit games.
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acesn8tz
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tokyo
Posts: 15
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I played pot limit yesterday for the first time and didn't like it. I think it was from a (nother) glitch in pacifics software. I had sit down at a 10$ NL table and it wouldn't let me overbet.
The advantage is in favor of the person drawing. As mentioned above it's harder to stop straight and flush draws.
Example: a guy had been mini-raising almost everyhand preflop. (short table, 4 other players)
I re-raise with A7o. Flop is AAk.
He bets and I try and put him all in. The computer modifies my bet to pot size. He calls. Turn is a 9...
You can see where it's going. His QJ gets his T on the river.
The guy was aggro and I would have lost anyway, because had I put him all in, I think he still probably would have called. I just would have felt "better" about the loss.
Oh well...what ya gonna do except stick to NL where you can put it all in when you have the best of it?..
[/b]
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BIGandRICH
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jazz Club
Posts: 419
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by acesn8tz
I played pot limit yesterday for the first time and didn't like it. I think it was from a (nother) glitch in pacifics software. I had sit down at a 10$ NL table and it wouldn't let me overbet.
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pacific has $10PL tables.. and they are pretty close to the no limit tables in the lobby.. you may have miss read what you clicked on
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villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
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DBL0SVN
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 230
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Thanks for the comments. I think pot limit is more challenging since it makes you play postflop more, rather than reducing the game to preflop decisions - especially in SnGs or tournies. It's less easy to take advantage of bad play so maybe that's why most people prefer NL. I'm going to give it a go to improve my postflop game without risking as much as I would in NL.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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I like pot limit. I prefer no limit, but no limit can also lend itself to crazies who just like pushing all in and making big, desperate bluffs. And while those crazies can be profitable, playing against them is often not very fun.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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I treat them pretty much the same. I mean, seriously, how many times are you truly betting more than the pot? The only hands that call you when that happens should completely own you.
The main difference is that you can try to catch PP sets with abandon, since the maximum raise is only 3.5x the BB if nobody else has done anything yet. As far as postflop, it plays pretty much the same except for one aspect: you can't check the nuts on teh flop and turn and expect to get a gigantic pot. You're probably going to have the bet on one of these streets, but this is still holds pretty true in NL as well. You're not going to get someone to call a massive overbet (5-10x the pot) on the river anyway if they weren't betting beforehand.
PL>NL, just because I can call with PP's easier. But really, the difference is fairily negligible.
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensign_lee
PL>NL, just because I can call with PP's easier. But really, the difference is fairily negligible.
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But do you find your small pocket pairs get paid off as well in PL as in NL?
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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yep; just as well. I mean, when am I really betting more than the pot postflop anyways if I expect to get a call?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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I started out playing pot limit almost exclusivly because i thought it would help me to learn to play better. I still go back from time to time (i even sometimes warm up there to get my mind focused)
Problem is as already mentioned that top pairs and sets are badly devalued. If you raise preflop with AA you get a table of callers with all sorts of trash. Yet i think it definalty helped me when i tried to learn more about how and why people bet at certain flops and how they play draws. Im not saying by any means im an expert but it helped my understanding of betting, flop textures and the things that begin to make you think about the game and not just the cards you are dealt.
I found also it was a good place to learn positional play without it costing you dear, but the real money is to be made in nl imo.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fkn2pt
big pairs go down in value, suited connectors go up.
bets limited to the size of the pot mean that you can't shut out straight / flush draws.
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Almost right. You CAN shut them out, but playing straight draws and flush draws is easier. Pot limit has more limping with connectors.
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