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dsaxton
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11-11-2005, 01:52 AM
Post subject: Ace rag and blind stealing.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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If it's folded to you in late position, and you're holding any ace, it pays to raise since it's less likely the opponents left to act have playable hands. Discuss.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
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I raise with any ace from the button.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by D
it's less likely the opponents left to act have playable hands.
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This statement is not true.
Make your 1000th post a good one.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
I raise with any ace from the button.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by D
it's less likely the opponents left to act have playable hands.
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This statement is not true.
Make your 1000th post a good one. |
From the perspective of most opponents, a significant percentage of playable hands contain aces, and with one ace dead, it becomes less likely they have what they consider to be playable hands.
Can you provide some form of an argument for why you think my statement isn't true? "Because I say so," isn't a very good one.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sax
From the perspective of most opponents, a significant percentage of playable hands contain aces, and with one ace dead, it becomes less likely they have what they consider to be playable hands.
Can you provide some form of an argument for why you think my statement isn't true? "Because I say so," isn't a very good one.
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I agree that 1/4 of the aces are in your hand.
My main reason for raising here does not consider that. You have a significant chance of winning the blinds regardless of your hand.
If you are called, you have position, and are forcing your opponent to "catch the flop."
If we win the hand without a showdown, it doesn't matter what we had.
If we are arguing that our hand is strong enough to take against 2 players, then we are not "stealing" with our ace.
If the only consideration we make in whether or not to raise is whether our opponents can call, then should we not raise our premium hands from the button?
I think the biggest factors here are
1) we have position for the rest of the hand
2) we have only 2 players that we need to fold.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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edudlive
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 100NL 6max
Posts: 623
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
I raise with any ace from the button.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by D
it's less likely the opponents left to act have playable hands.
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This statement is not true.
Make your 1000th post a good one. |
Isn't the opposite true? That since the other players folded the chance of the remaining players holding a good hand increases since the previous players probably folded low and bad cards?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sax
From the perspective of most opponents, a significant percentage of playable hands contain aces, and with one ace dead, it becomes less likely they have what they consider to be playable hands.
Can you provide some form of an argument for why you think my statement isn't true? "Because I say so," isn't a very good one.
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I agree that 1/4 of the aces are in your hand.
My main reason for raising here does not consider that. You have a significant chance of winning the blinds regardless of your hand.
If you are called, you have position, and are forcing your opponent to "catch the flop."
If we win the hand without a showdown, it doesn't matter what we had.
If we are arguing that our hand is strong enough to take against 2 players, then we are not "stealing" with our ace.
If the only consideration we make in whether or not to raise is whether our opponents can call, then should we not raise our premium hands from the button?
I think the biggest factors here are
1) we have position for the rest of the hand
2) we have only 2 players that we need to fold. |
I didn't say it was a primary reason. I was pointing out that holding an ace makes a blind steal more probable.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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The problem I have with this play is that they're going to put you on Ax.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The problem I have with this play is that they're going to put you on Ax.
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Then they fold KQ to a 1/2 pot flop bet because they know you have them beat by ace high and they can't draw to overcards?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The problem I have with this play is that they're going to put you on Ax.
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Then they fold KQ to a 1/2 pot flop bet because they know you have them beat by ace high and they can't draw to overcards? |
No they don't. They raise you out of the hand because they know you cant call with your Ace high.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The problem I have with this play is that they're going to put you on Ax.
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Then they fold KQ to a 1/2 pot flop bet because they know you have them beat by ace high and they can't draw to overcards? |
No they don't. They raise you out of the hand because they know you cant call with your Ace high. |
Weak tighties will not do this.
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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Edit: Thought this was the SnG forum  Disregard.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The problem I have with this play is that they're going to put you on Ax.
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So you're dumping Axo in CO/btn? No way you're limping this crap.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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My question is, why does this play have to be made with ace/rag? If it's folded to you in late position, you can raise with any 2. In fact, I'd rather make this play with a hand like 56o then A6o, because it's much less likely that you are dominated. There is also the potential of hitting an undetectable monster. Granted your opponent IS less likely to hold a playable hand as you have an ace in your hand, if he does call with an ace, he will surely have you outkicked and dominated on an A high flop.
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