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Absolute v's Relative hand strength

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bjsaust

04-30-2009, 04:08 AM Post subject: Absolute v's Relative hand strength

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

Robbs link to Spoonitnow's "when not to cbet" thread reminded me of this concept. Its something thats come up in a couple of vids I've watched lately and I think is a really good concept to get a grasp of as a beginner.

Heres an example to demonstrate the point:

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
2 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
BTN ($197.26)
Hero (BB) ($111.50)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 2 players) Hero is BB

BTN calls $0.50, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $3

Flop:

($8, 2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN calls $5

Turn:

($18, 2 players)
Hero bets $9, BTN calls $9

River:

($36, 2 players)
Hero bets $17, BTN raises to $34, Hero raises to $93.50, BTN calls $59.50

Final Pot: $223
BTN shows:

Hero shows:

Hero wins $222 ( won $110.50 )
BTN lost -$111.50

Now ignore the way the hand was played till the river, irrelevant to the point here. On the river BTN has the 2nd nut flush, which on this board is the 2nd nuts overall. Incredibly strong absolute hand. However, what he fails to consider, is how strong it is relative to what hands I bet/shove this 4 flush (i.e., very obvious flush) board. For his call to be good, he has to think I'm capable of doing this with J

really, since worse than that is 9

or worse which is extremely unlikely.

So on other boards his abolute hand strength (2nd nuts) could well be worth a call, if I could likely do this with a set/straight/2P/etc, but on this particular board, with this particular action his relative hand strength is fairly poor.

Note, his relative hand strength when I first bet the river 1/2 pot could well be strong enough to raise and expect to get called by worse.

Just playing to improve.

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kmind

04-30-2009, 04:30 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

I like it but I might be biased because you made me realize I need to think of this stuff more often. Good post, Ben!

Micro2Macro

04-30-2009, 05:03 AM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: http://three-pair.com/

Posts: 4,463

Nice post and a great example of how it all comes down to ranges, and what betting/raising does to change your villain's continuing ranges when they face that bet or raise.

I think this simple, yet deep post deserves more than just a quick glance.

"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

JustinSKS

05-01-2009, 01:07 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 115

hmm, I like this post, gets me to be thinking more while im playing at the tables, more about their hands and things. Nice work.

I fold AA preflop.

bjsaust

06-26-2009, 12:36 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

Played a hand today that reminded me of this post. This guy was pretty terrible so not too surprised, but even knowing how bad he was I expected a stronger range than this:

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($114.13)
BB ($138.20)
MP ($144.64)
UTG ($162.26)
Button ($119.65)
SB ($19.13)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Hero bets $4, 2 folds, BB calls $3, UTG calls $3

Flop: ($12.50) J

, Q

, 9

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $9, 1 fold, UTG calls $9

Turn: ($30.50) K

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($30.50) Q

(2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero raises $45, UTG raises $80, Hero raises $56.13 (All-In), UTG calls $16.13

Total pot: $232.76

Results:
UTG had A

, Q

(three of a kind, Queens).
Hero had K

, K

(full house, Kings over Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $229.76

Three of a kind is obviously a strong absolute hand, but on that board its just woeful. Its relative strength is terrible and nowhere near a stackoff candidate.

Just playing to improve.

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Absolute v's Relative hand strength

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