|
wonderland
|
10-11-2008, 11:48 AM
Post subject: Absolute F**king b*****ards
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
Guys,
Almost had my bankroll RAPED tonight by calling stations. It's 5am and i've been slowly clawing back my losses only to have them snatched away on the river.
What do you do, when you raise with AJ, the board comes down with a Jack, you bet, bet, BET and he makes his set on the river. What are you supposed to do!?? because there ARE times when such people will take down every pot you're in, so value betting is out.
Think someone could just die of anger??
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
bjsaust
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
|
|
If someone will call 2 streets with an underpair then value betting is IN, IN, IN!!!
Stuff happens, sometimes the deck just keeps kicking you in the ass, but if you consistantly value bet the best hand then over a large enough sample you'll make good money.
As for dealing with it in the moment, you gotta find what works for you. For me, I usually just take a deep breath and remind myself that I WANT to play against people who will call to the river with crap hands, because over time they're my main donators.
Probably the wrong idea is to chase losses until the early hours of the morning when you're emotionally affected by it though.
|
|
Just playing to improve.
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
take a break. don't play for hours on end trying to get even. don't make posts on here about bad beats, and don't dwell on your bad luck.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
xX zorrito Xx
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
|
|
donk it up in play money if you're tilting... if you're playing with a proper roll then you shouldn't be tilting...
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Step 1: This belongs in the tilt forum.
Step 2: Read http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ll-t65393.html
Step 3: Shut the fuck up and grind
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
a500lbgorilla
|
|
JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
|
|
avoid tilt. It sucks but you have to try. The game doesn't always reward the correct move.
|
Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
Just some hands of the night to prove i'm not just whining:
http://weaktight.com/450805
http://weaktight.com/450807
http://weaktight.com/450808
This was happening all night. I just knew i could take their stack if i played a monster as though i was just calling on tilt or something but the situation never came up.
But my reasoning was getting affected, if i got a flush i didn't dare value bet because i thought they must have it beat. These guys took out my TPTK, trips, flushes. This isn't just a whine it's questioning what the hell you do when this happens. Every time I got decent starting hands I lost money.
Another point about cbetting. I started to cbet my missed flops, standard. But was getting called near 100% of the time and I was missing a huge amount of the time, so no more cbetting. Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
grindwell
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grinding in Cali
Posts: 19
|
|
bjaust, where do you get the cool signature?
|
|
|
|
sarbox68
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
|
|
Change tables
Change levels
Change games
...prolly in that order... but if you gonna keep playing when you're PO'd and not playing your best, def dial it back to a level where the moniez don't matter...
|
|
|
|
donkbee
|
|
WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
|
|
In the three hands that you posted, do you think you played optimally in all of them?
For the first hand, what did you put him on after he raised the river?
Do you want to explain your bet sizing for the third hand?
I mean I understand that you're probably getting bad beat a lot lately and you feel like you just can't win anything, but I highly doubt you're playing perfectly either. Instead of making a post whining about howyou're so unlucky, post some hands and read more. I 100% would have moved this to the tilt forum if you hadn't at least posted a few hands.
You're going to run bad in poker. That's all there is to it. You are not the only one. If you don't want to go thru it, find a new hobby.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wonderland
Just some hands of the night to prove i'm not just whining:
http://weaktight.com/450805
http://weaktight.com/450807
http://weaktight.com/450808
This was happening all night. I just knew i could take their stack if i played a monster as though i was just calling on tilt or something but the situation never came up.
But my reasoning was getting affected, if i got a flush i didn't dare value bet because i thought they must have it beat. These guys took out my TPTK, trips, flushes. This isn't just a whine it's questioning what the hell you do when this happens. Every time I got decent starting hands I lost money.
Another point about cbetting. I started to cbet my missed flops, standard. But was getting called near 100% of the time and I was missing a huge amount of the time, so no more cbetting. Thoughts? |
You *are* just whining. If you play good then you make money over the long term.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
daven
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wonderland
Just some hands of the night to prove i'm whining like a stuck pig
|
fyp
stop whining. this is the why of bankroll managment. Beats and downswings happen.
|
|
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
looking over my hands, they were a little odd but that's because i noticed a strange phenomena, the more i bet and made it unprofitable for them to call, them MORE they called... ??
and the more they sucked out.
So my point was about how to change/adapt your game when this happens? it's not normal poker then. Take the hand where the guy called a PFR with 84o.
|
|
|
|
donkbee
|
|
WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
|
|
Don't you want 84o to call you preflop?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
|
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
to be honest, no. I find those are trouble hands and you can't predict what the fuck they have.
Anyway i just got quads so i guess that's variance.
But there's no point in me trying to discuss how to deal with unusual players as i'll just get labelled a whiner.
|
|
|
|
Stacks
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wonderland
to be honest, no. I find those are trouble hands and you can't predict what the fuck they have.
Anyway i just got quads so i guess that's variance.
But there's no point in me trying to discuss how to deal with unusual players as i'll just get labelled a whiner.
|
Your not asking how to deal with unusual players, or at least it sure doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your asking how you can avoid bad beats, suckouts, coolers. And the answer is simply, you can't! And believe it or not, you shouldn't care when it happens. Everytime you get a bad beat, you got your money in good and will win money in the long run.
You can't stop betting a solid hand because you think they will suckout anyways. If you do this you are going to be missing out on value. As far as the c-betting with air goes, remember it shouldn't be done 100% of the time. It's okay to check/fold flops that you miss against villains that just won't fold.
And whether you say this is a whine post or not, it will definately come across as just that to any poker player that has a basic grasp on poker. You can't change your play just because you get sucked out on. If you made +ev plays every instance, then you made money. If you made a -ev play, then you lost money. Simple as that. Coming here and whining about losing a few hands will get you nowhere.
|
|
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
thanks stax.
Ok, my actual actual point IS...
What about the idea of +EV meaning to play with your opponents in mind. Is it +EV to play standard when they're playing very unusually.
Example: you hit TPTK on the flop and bet good, 2/3 or full pot. You get raised, or check raised. You know they're unusual and have seen them pluff before or even call a PFR with nothing. How do we play against such people.
Scenario b, you fire out 3 barrels and the insta-call each time, no matter how big the bet.
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
What the fuck are you talking about?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
oh you know what, fuck it then.
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Step 1: Put Villain on a range
Step 2: Make +EV decisions based on that range
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
bjsaust
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
|
|
If you play good hands v's crap hands you'll win more often than not. HOWEVER, if someone starts getting aggressive, ask yourself why. A lot of it depends on whether they bluff much or not. If they dont bluff much, then whatever whacky hand it might be that beats you, they probably have that when they raise you.
|
|
Just playing to improve.
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
What the fuck are you talking about?
|
This is the title of my new book btw. Thanks for inspiring me to create it.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
bjsaust
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wonderland
Scenario b, you fire out 3 barrels and the insta-call each time, no matter how big the bet.
|
I make TP+ and get all the money in by the river with a grin on my face!!
|
|
Just playing to improve.
|
|
ponyboy
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
|
|
Hand 1: I would have probably played just like villain. Did you expect him to fold TPMK and a flush draw on the turn?
Hand 2: Granted the preflop call was donkish but then he slowplayed trips all the way and got maximum money out of you.
Hand 3: You gave him odds to call all the way - $.20 into a $1 pot is not a good bet. $.50 into a $1.40 pot is not a good bet.
I have also struggled with this but you have to make these guys pay for their stupid plays. Hand 3 if you had bet say $.80 he wouldn't have had the right odds to call - then he's making a stupid play. On the river if you bet $1.20 into a $1.50 pot again, he doesn't have the right odds. I'm still working on these exact numbers and pulling them out of my ass quickly but I know these bets are the wrong size.
Maybe there were other hands I didn't see but these three I thought were totally fine and you got beat by not betting properly.
|
|
|
|
Robb
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
|
|
Wonderland,
I know you're frustrated. I read the entire thread, stopping to look through the hands.
1. Good job trying to adjust.
2. Your adjustment went the wrong direction.
If you're consistently getting sucked out on the later streets, and consistently getting your money in good preflop and on the flop, you need to correct by BETTING MORE on those two streets.
Your adjustment just made you weak tight which turned you into an ATM for stations. Consider betting 5x or 6x preflop, and PSB+ every flop you connect with. If they won't fold, make them pay a premium to chase. Get more aggressive early and put more chips in, if they'll call.
Here's a rant I posted a few months back when several folks posted similar threads to this one.
Rant: Ungentle Advice Contained Herein - Reader Beware
Good luck finding your way back to equilibrium. Sessions like that one can really screw with your game, your head and your ABC poker skills.
|
|
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
thanks so much Robb, oh and i need to get back to you about equity, sorry about that, i do appreciate you putting the time in.
I'll read that article.
Yeah you guys are right, bet sizing. If ever i did bet small it was just because i didn't want to end up shoving by the river when i only had TPTK, i only shove when i have a total monster. Betting huge can leave me stackless if i make a mistake, but then it did anyway.
|
|
|
|
Galapogos
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
|
|
Sounds like you have the wrong mindset for the game. You shouldn't alter your betting because "it's one of those nights". There is no such thing. Luck is not an entity that follows you around. Spoon's right, make the most +EV plays and you profit.
One of the better things I've gotten out of video sites is this, the pros don't care when they get bad beat. They sometimes laugh at the goofiness of the suckout, are sometimes a little amused by the other guy's call. But they never get mad, or bitch about their luck. The first thing they say is about how they're happy they made the right play.
AEJones had a really cool way of looking at it in one video. He 3-bet a guy preflop in position with QJ or something and got called. He ends up stacking off and loses because the other guy called with something dumb like second pair and sucked out on the river. AEJones said something to the effect of, "I don't care that he sucked out, because I made a shitload of money there. If he's calling off his stack when he's that much of a dog to the bottom of my range, equity-wise I made a lot of money. And in the long run, the equity pays."
These guys only think about the equity, because they truly understand how the game doesn't go from the start of your session to the end, or the start of the month to the end of the month. They have totally removed results oriented thinking from there game and understand they have to be happy with their decisions and not their results. If they have a bad session, they walk away knowing making the right most +EV decisions will pay off in the long run.
Cliffnotes:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Step 1: Put Villain on a range
Step 2: Make +EV decisions based on that range
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
|
|
|
wonderland
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 478
|
|
I like how that's put. Sounds almost Jedi like 
The Tao of Poker.
Someone should write it.
|
|
|
|
sarbox68
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
What the fuck are you talking about?
|
I honestly prefer this.... I think would sell more copies... 
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
What the fuck are you talking about?
|
I honestly prefer this.... I think would sell more copies... |
My previous book was "How to Really Suck at Poker".
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
wellrounded08
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?
Posts: 366
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
My previous book was "How to Really Suck at Poker".
|
Chapter 2 imo:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wonderland
oh you know what, fuck it then.
|
|
|
|
|
Extremophile
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stackton
Posts: 451
|
|
OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.
We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).
I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.
2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs-Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!!
|
|
|
|
Stacks
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Extremophile
OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.
We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).
I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.
2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs- Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!! |
You need to do some reading. You should be incredibly happy he did that "crazy" bet. Also you won't avoid crazy bets when you play for real money. It still happens. But it's a good thing obviously.
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Extremophile
OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.
We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).
I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.
2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs- Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!! |
It's pretty crazy that he hit two jacks on the river.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
Monty3038
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 788
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Extremophile
OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.
We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).
I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.
2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs- Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!! |
It's pretty crazy that he hit two jacks on the river. |
I hit two jacks on the river once...
wait for it...
I was in a canoe.
|
|
|
|
Robb
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Monty3038
I was in a canoe.
|
Please, mods, stick a fork in this one. It's dead.
|
|
|
|
spoonitnow
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Monty3038
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Extremophile
OK. I dont think this is a proper place to post all these but I just wanted to express my feelings. I have been playing for a few months but i have understood how idiot people can be.
We are playing the final table in a torunament with 10K play money buy in (I thought they would play it more seriously).
I had pocket K and i raised it 3 times the big blind. One had short stack and went all-in the other guy had the same amt of chips with me and he called.
2d-4s-2h on the flop and he bet very small and i thought he had a weak hand and I went all in. He called with Qs- Js. MAN!!!! And he hit two more J on the river and i got eliminated. The most weird bet i have ever seen. I dont know what to do now. I think i am going to play with real money to avoid such crazy bets!!! |
It's pretty crazy that he hit two jacks on the river. |
I hit two jacks on the river once...
wait for it...
I was in a canoe. |
Oh snap.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
|
|
|
Extremophile
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stackton
Posts: 451
|
|
Thanks for the comments. Real money worked better. I made the final table of the 1.00+0.10 $ buy-in tournament with 2226 entrants. Man it was 6 hours of play and I got tired in the end. Good luck!
|
|
|
|
donkbee
|
|
WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
|
|
ok I agree, let's move on to new threads. No more canoes.
{locked}
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
