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Aaarrgh. Still Losing.

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EasyT

03-16-2005, 07:33 PM Post subject: Aaarrgh. Still Losing.

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

You guys have been great, and I really respect your opinions. I feel like my game has improved greatly, and yet I'm still LOSING.

Aargh.

I registered PokerTracker and keep track of:
% Voluntarily Put $ in Pot
% Flops Seen.
Aggression Ratings.
$ Won/Lost
Other Players the same as above + set AutoRate peramaters.

I have printed off and memorized the table posted under Topic: Starting Hands (by JeffreyGB, thanks Jeffrey)
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ighlight=excel

My VP$IP hovers around 22%. My aggression fluctuates a bunch, but is usually over 1.0 after the flop by the end of a session.

I stick to the table of starting hands, but will loosen a bit if the table is tight.

I am disciplined in that --
I don't generally chase (without good pot odds, nevermind implied odds),
I don't generally tilt, and
I don't generally push all in without the nuts.

I play the Empire $25 NL tables. And I can't beat them with the above play.

Is my post-flop play horrible? Is it just a bad streak?

I will admit that one of my faults is my short BankRoll. I don't have 10x to drop into poker right now. I havn't busted out entirely, but I do re-buy occassionally when I'm down some.

Should I move to another site that has smaller games? Should I spend time putting guys on specific cards? Should I be more aggressive after the flop if I missed, because I was aggressive pre-flop? Should I mark specific players I can beat and chase them around? Do I stay at one table to long?

All advice welcome. Something has to 'click' real soon for me.

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a500lbgorilla

03-16-2005, 07:36 PM

#2 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Why am I losing?

Quote:

nevermind implied odds

I found it.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

EasyT

03-16-2005, 07:48 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

Quote:

Quote:
Why am I losing?

Quote:
nevermind implied odds

I found it.

-'rilla

All I meant was that I'm not inflating the odds on the assumption that I'll get more money than exactly what is in the pot right now. Is this wrong?

JeffreyGB

03-16-2005, 07:49 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

One thing I should definitely modify about that table is to adjust pocket pairs.

You should call raises with any pocket pair if it's less than 1/10 of your stack (and the raiser has at least as many chips as you do...if they don't then it must be less than 1/10 of their stack). This is because there's HUGE implied odds on the 1:8 chance of hitting your set. A large part of the time you can get the raiser to go all-in against you and double up.

Also, the KJ/QJ/KT block is becoming a usual fold for me from EP, unless the table is especially passive.

Find some situations where you lost money and aren't sure what if anything you did wrong (Poker Tracker will help with finding 'em) and post the hand histories. Hopefully that feedback should help.

- Jeffrey

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

mimmons775

03-16-2005, 07:50 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 92

i dont believe he is losing just because he doesnt use implied odds. thats one of the reasons, but it may be because you have a tough time getting off of a big hand. You have got to know when your beat and learn to lay down big hands even if its the second nuts. by paying attention to your opponents you can tell whether or not their likely to have you beat by how loose of a player they are.

"I guess if there wasnt luck involved id win everyone."

JeffreyGB

03-16-2005, 07:53 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

When I didn't have enough of a BR, I did two things: played micros at UB (.05/.10) and bought in with less than the max. The reason for both was simply to ensure I could play my best without worry of losing too much. That's the philosophy behind all of the BR management stuff that you read (essentially don't play above your bankroll to the point that a losing streak will hurt you bad and/or losing a few buyins makes it hard to play with proper aggression), and doing it this way has worked for me.

- Jeffrey

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

EasyT

03-16-2005, 08:30 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

I started at Paradise, where they have $.1/.02 tables and up in small incriments. Unfortunately the site runs so slowly on my computer/dial up. If you guys think BR is one of my main problems, I'll seriously consider moving my money back over and dropping down to the smaller tables.

The other item I have been meaning to do, but have not done yet, is buy a Slansky book ('Poker Theory' will be first, I think). But since a adopted two puppies last month, I havn't even read my mail...nevermind an actual book. I still intend to, when the puppies require less constant attention.

Oh, and I do usually call reasonable bets with any poket pair. I was using an 8x bet rule rather than 10x. If I'm losing, which has been typical, I tend to get tighter and will fold some of the 'limp-able' hands (22-55, KJ and down) from early or even middle position.

ville18

03-16-2005, 08:58 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo mama

Posts: 223

Personally I prefer reading Forums like this (I read only this one but in general), where u get to chat with players who actually play lower limits unlike those pros' who are writing books about poker. I think the best way to improve your game is read others hand histories and post your own ones and ask for advice.

a500lbgorilla

03-16-2005, 09:27 PM

#9 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyT

Quote:

Quote:
Why am I losing?

Quote:
nevermind implied odds

I found it.

-'rilla

All I meant was that I'm not inflating the odds on the assumption that I'll get more money than exactly what is in the pot right now. Is this wrong?

NL is all about implied odds. Small pots are fought over AT and AJ flop Axx. Large pots are fought over with AA and 55. Flop J5x.

These are where the big wins are. Then you just pad your winnings by playing AK aggressivly on a missed flop and check-raise with 88 on the flop J7x.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

jmontis

03-17-2005, 01:07 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

rilla is right, don't overvalue TPTK in NL ring games, itll save you money. Even if it's NL, keep your bets to a reasonable amount, so people don't trap you for all your money or think you're bluffing and hit runner-runners.

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

a500lbgorilla

03-17-2005, 01:14 AM

#11 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmontis

Don't get me wrong.

You should play TPTK strong. Just don't overplay it.

Don't reraise a check-raiser on the turn. etc etc.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

jmontis

03-17-2005, 04:08 AM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmontis

Don't get me wrong.

You should play TPTK strong. Just don't overplay it.

Don't reraise a check-raiser on the turn. etc etc.

-'rilla

i'm still learning myself and i've got a bit of cash game experience, but I know I have things to work on. But i think being reasonable with TPTK bets is good advice. Don't lose your stack with a pair of kings ace kicker

EasyT

03-17-2005, 04:14 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Yo Mamma

Posts: 834

So what I'm hearing is that I might be playing pairs too heavily. I should be sitting on sets, straights, flushes and boats etc, before getting too tricky or big with my play. I feel like I play 'by the book' poker and it's not working for me.

I think that because I patiently wait for the best starting hands, when I get one I almost expect that I should win. I get AK, raise pre-flop, spike a K on the flop, and too often go down with the ship with my pair. Is this a common newbie problem?

I'm at work now, but this evening I'll look at PT and post some hands under Hand Histories for some feedback. I'm sure I'll have some real doozies!

PS. I'm starting to feel like I'm annoying y'all because this is like the third thread I've posted to ask for help with my losing-ass game.

Thanks everyone for your input!!

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