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KeeKoLy
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03-24-2009, 05:05 PM
Post subject: AA vs. typical calling station, when to stop firing?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
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At the request of carroters (good idea BTW), here is a hand for analysis.
Villain has been running 46/13/1.2 over 71 hands. In general this table was crazy. I have seen villain willing to call large bets without odds to draw out, but hardly ever raises such bets. So, PF, he could be on a wide range, but with his style of not raising, it's hard to put him on anything specific. So how's my line on this one?
(Also on a side note, I really wanted to shove after my flop bet was raised, but the raiser is now all in, I can't re-raise that anyway?)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop
CO ($1)
VILLAIN (Button) ($6.53)
SB ($2.62)
BB ($5.64)
Hero (UTG) ($5.62)
UTG+1 ($2.29)
MP1 ($2.10)
MP2 ($0.54)
MP3 ($1.95)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A , A
Hero bets $0.10, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, 2 folds, VILLAIN calls $0.10, 1 fold, BB calls $0.08
Flop: ($0.41) 4 , J , K (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.40, MP2 raises to $0.44 (All-In), VILLAIN calls $0.44, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.04
Turn: ($1.73) 5 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $0.50, VILLAIN calls $0.50
River: ($2.73) 4 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $0.50, VILLAIN raises to $1, Hero calls $0.50
Total pot: $4.73 | Rake: $0.20
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Tyshalle
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 40
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Personally, as a n00b myself, and without any more specific reads I'd say you played this hand correctly, but if I were in your shoes I probably would've been uncomfortable with it too.
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dejection08
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 38
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It seems that on the flop the bet is about the right size. The bet on the turn seems a little smallish, it seems like your a little unsure of what to do with your hand. But the turn does make a flush. On the river when the 4 comes , betting in to the villain seems like a blocker bet. I'd much prefer to c/c the river if i felt my hand was good.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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c/c river against a calling station? i'm Vbetting Vbetting and oh yeah some more Vbetting until i hit opposition (a call from a calling station DOES NOT count as opposition). turn and river bets are too small. i say more like 1.2 on turn and 2.4 on river (since the pot woulda been more than $4; i like to bet in exact increments of previous bets if i can because fish think they can get a read from this). river is a b/f for me but still a legit 2/3 polt betting situation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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KeeKoLy
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dejection08
It seems that on the flop the bet is about the right size. The bet on the turn seems a little smallish, it seems like your a little unsure of what to do with your hand. But the turn does make a flush. On the river when the 4 comes , betting in to the villain seems like a blocker bet. I'd much prefer to c/c the river if i felt my hand was good.
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[dumb question]What is a blocker bet? A bet you put out in hopes the opponent will only call this smaller amount vs. raising or possibly betting more than your bet if checked to?[/dumb question]
Looking back I should have bet the turn harder, and c/f the river if I think I am beat. Turns out he did have the flush, so my guy was right which is why i bet smaller. But, in the big picture, I should be betting larger here since in the long run this player will call such bets and it still has +EV.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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a blocker bet (or stop bet) is when you put a 1/2 pot-2/3 pot bet (or sometimes smaller if you can get away with it like you did) as an alternative to c/c'ing or c/f'ing the river. the idea is that a nonthinking opponent is going to be less likely to bluff or push with a very good but vulnerable hand, so that you can live to see the show down.
I'm sticking by b/f'ing the river. just take a second to think of a calling station's range in this pot...it includes a lot more holdings than diamonds and 4x, doesn't it?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas. |
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lockpull
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OVERLAND PARK, KS
Posts: 303
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PF is good. I bet more on the flop (maybe like .55-.60) If villian is willing to call big bets without correct odds to do so then take advantage of this. As it happened, he was getting almost the exact right price to draw to the flush or the OESD. (And even better given his implied odds against you) The turn and river bet are small but I understand. You have a good but vulnerable hand against loose players but getting almost 8.5-1 I think the call is good.
A blocker bet is when you throw a smallish bet out with a hand that might be beat but you want to see a showdown and think your OPP will put a bigger bet in if you check.
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Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
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KeeKoLy
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lockpull
PF is good. I bet more on the flop (maybe like .55-.60) If villian is willing to call big bets without correct odds to do so then take advantage of this. As it happened, he was getting almost the exact right price to draw to the flush or the OESD. (And even better given his implied odds against you) The turn and river bet are small but I understand. You have a good but vulnerable hand against loose players but getting almost 8.5-1 I think the call is good.
A blocker bet is when you throw a smallish bet out with a hand that might be beat but you want to see a showdown and think your OPP will put a bigger bet in if you check.
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Ok, then this is something I have been doing without knowing the official range. On learned on my own early on that weak calling stations will let you tell THEM how much they are going to bet. So in situations like this it works out, until he hits his hand of course 
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tyrn
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 189
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Bet more on flop especially against calling station. He may have paired his K or J and is likely to call a larger bet with your read and this is where you get value. You're still likely ahead here. On turn I'd bet at least half the pot, you're giving him drawing odds here, especially if you're not going to be able to fold to a re-raise on the river. On river I would either bet at least half pot or not bet at all if I was worried about my hand. With your reads though, I'd bet on river.
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kevin2311
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19
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stop calling when you no your beat other then that teach him a lesson
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kevin2311
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19
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not only will you get the table respect for knocking him out you will get his chips and feel better about yourself for knocking him out
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tyrn
Bet more on flop especially against calling station. He may have paired his K or J and is likely to call a larger bet with your read and this is where you get value. You're still likely ahead here. On turn I'd bet at least half the pot, you're giving him drawing odds here, especially if you're not going to be able to fold to a re-raise on the river. On river I would either bet at least half pot or not bet at all if I was worried about my hand. With your reads though, I'd bet on river.
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his pot size bet is fine. you dont accomplish much by overbetting
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texa8
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tyrn
Bet more on flop especially against calling station. He may have paired his K or J and is likely to call a larger bet with your read and this is where you get value. You're still likely ahead here. On turn I'd bet at least half the pot, you're giving him drawing odds here, especially if you're not going to be able to fold to a re-raise on the river. On river I would either bet at least half pot or not bet at all if I was worried about my hand. With your reads though, I'd bet on river.
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his pot size bet is fine. you dont accomplish much by overbetting |
i was going to say this until i saw it in the last post.
IMO the flop bet is fine. its the turn bet that should be higher.
as played i probably bet out on the river to. i hate folding to min-raises like that and would probably end up calling, at least just to look him up. Villain could make the same play with Kx on the river after your turn bet.
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moemtg
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03-25-2009, 07:02 AM
Post subject: My 2 Cents
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#14 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 12
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All I have to say is that I've seen Aces turned to rags soooo many times... In fact 3 times for me today (played for 9 hours on UB) Just take the advice from Doyle... scare em off with a large bet, then limp the rest of the way... you never know when the punk will hit a set and send you to shame.
All the best,
Justin.
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I stop firing on the ocean. I still feel fish will pay off a river bet, but not an ocean bet.
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