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miracleriver
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10-23-2007, 12:01 AM
Post subject: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 173
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($2.89)
UTG+1 ($3.52)
MP1 ($4.71)
MP2 ($6.28)
MP3 ($0.66)
CO ($0.48)
Button ($4.59)
SB ($0.84)
BB ($2)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A , A . CO posts a blind of $0.03.
Hero raises to $0.1, UTG+1 calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 calls $0.10, 3 folds, BB calls $0.08.
Flop: ($0.64) T, 9, 6 (6 players)
BB checks, Hero ???
I don't like this spot: oop in a big multi-way pot on a flop that hit a lot of their ranges. How would you proceed?
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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I bet pot and re-assess turn. There are a lot of hands that wil call in this situation, and we want to create bad odds for a draw to follow. However, if you get two callers, a late position player may have odds to call with a marginal hand/OESD. That means you have to be wary of aggression on the turn. So, again, I bet/fold flop, and hopefully I can gain some information for the turn if I see it.
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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sejje
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10-23-2007, 01:50 AM
Post subject: Re: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#3 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
I don't like this spot: oop in a big multi-way pot on a flop that hit a lot of their ranges. How would you proceed?
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I'm not sure what you're thinking: check?
You freakin' bet. You find out if it hit their "range" when they act.
And honestly, that flop didn't hit their range hard. It probably gave a lot of hands a straight draw, and that's just about it. What legit hand in someone's range is ahead of you? 9T, anything else barring a set?
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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checking is out of the question
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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miracleriver
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10-23-2007, 03:08 AM
Post subject: Re: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#5 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 173
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
I don't like this spot: oop in a big multi-way pot on a flop that hit a lot of their ranges. How would you proceed?
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I'm not sure what you're thinking: check? |
The main thing I am thinking at this point is I don't want to play for stack because I don't think it is profitable (maybe I am wrong).
I have no problem with b/f the flop like $0.40 into $0.60. But if I bet and I am being flat-called, how do I play the turn? Checking the turn is an open invitation for villain to bet no matter what he has. Betting the turn pretty much commits me which I think is not profitable.
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martindcx1e
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10-23-2007, 03:33 AM
Post subject: Re: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#6 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
I don't like this spot: oop in a big multi-way pot on a flop that hit a lot of their ranges. How would you proceed?
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I'm not sure what you're thinking: check? |
The main thing I am thinking at this point is I don't want to play for stack because I don't think it is profitable (maybe I am wrong).
I have no problem with b/f the flop like $0.40 into $0.60. But if I bet and I am being flat-called, how do I play the turn? Checking the turn is an open invitation for villain to bet no matter what he has. Betting the turn pretty much commits me which I think is not profitable. |
huge multiway raised pots usually make it about impossible for you not to go broke when someone out flops you. it doesn't happen very often so don't let it bug you too much. top pair will call you, a straight draw may call you, and you will also get action from weaker overpairs if they are out there.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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miracleriver
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10-23-2007, 04:25 AM
Post subject: Re: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#7 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 173
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
huge multiway raised pots usually make it about impossible for you not to go broke when someone out flops you. it doesn't happen very often so don't let it bug you too much. top pair will call you, a straight draw may call you, and you will also get action from weaker overpairs if they are out there.
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So you always stack off here?
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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i could prob get away from a raise but if you get a couple calls and the turn doesn't complete anything i think it'd be tough to lay down.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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IPlayTight
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tucson
Posts: 15
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i like betting, but if you want to avoid this situation you need to bet an amount preflop that is threatening enough to make them consider the call. Here it appears as if they dont care about calling another few cents, probably due to the stakes.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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Pot that.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i want to commit MP3 and BB since they are shorter stacks than i. in the process, i will commit myself to the others.
what the hell do i care? at 2NL, AA is prolly the nuts if you overbet the pot here, to destroy opponents' odds, and get called. if you get raised, then, someone may very well have hit a set or 2 pr against you.
but, i am not interested in saving my stack at the $2 level with AA. they will call with worse so often its profitable, imo.
i would bet about $.75 on flop, if they call, i am leading any non-straight card turn HARD.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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pankfish
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10-24-2007, 01:08 AM
Post subject: Re: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#12 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
I don't like this spot: oop in a big multi-way pot on a flop that hit a lot of their ranges. How would you proceed?
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I'm not sure what you're thinking: check?
You freakin' bet. You find out if it hit their "range" when they act.
And honestly, that flop didn't hit their range hard. It probably gave a lot of hands a straight draw, and that's just about it. What legit hand in someone's range is ahead of you? 9T, anything else barring a set? |
What do you mean that flop didn't hit their range hard? He is in the hand with five other players, chances are he is behind at this point. You need to raise harder preflop in this situation. There is no reason why 7-8 suited wouldn't call this bet preflop if he were in late position or in the blind. You have to come off stronger when raising utg, if utg+1 cold calls it gives pretty much everyone down the line a cheap price to call.
If you isolated one, maybe two callers I would bet big and be willing to play for stacks. In this situation you don't have the nuts, you have 1 pair. If you are in front, it isn't by much. And you are playing two outs.
I would fire off one bet for sure. If you fire again on the turn you are pretty much committed though, and if this pot is still multi-way I'm not sure if I try to take it down. Really having this many callers with AA is a nightmare situation.
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pankfish
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10-24-2007, 01:24 AM
Post subject: Re: AA, tough spot on the flop
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#13 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Quote:
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Originally Posted by miracleriver
I don't like this spot: oop in a big multi-way pot on a flop that hit a lot of their ranges. How would you proceed?
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I'm not sure what you're thinking: check? |
The main thing I am thinking at this point is I don't want to play for stack because I don't think it is profitable (maybe I am wrong).
I have no problem with b/f the flop like $0.40 into $0.60. But if I bet and I am being flat-called, how do I play the turn? Checking the turn is an open invitation for villain to bet no matter what he has. Betting the turn pretty much commits me which I think is not profitable. |
2/3 pot isn't large enough here. Pot is good, I would think 70 cents at least is in order. You need to show these people you have a big hand, push them away from the draw.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
Pot that.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Chopper's line is good. Pot raise the flop. If I get called, I'm still firing on the turn.
I wouldn't sweat a call too much. 78s is worried about a 20 hand catching a Q/J on the turn for a better straight.
I'm worried about a rr. If I have 78 on this hand, I'm rr'ing all-in, trying to win it while I'm still ahead. So any villain who calls the big flop bet is (a) too tricky for his own good, (b) behind and on a draw, or (c) insane. Likely (c), at these stakes. I'm shoving the turn, too, unless there's no way a straight wasn't made.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
I'm worried about a rr. If I have 78 on this hand, I'm rr'ing all-in, trying to win it while I'm still ahead.
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which is why, no matter what, we HAVE to bet the flop big, and the turn. we acknowledge there are big draws out and need to discourage them from drawing. at the $2 level, they will forgo pot odds because they a)dont know about them or b)just read about implied odds and want to "justify" a chase. i doubt many at $2 actually understand them other than to know that they read about them in a book....and that, too, is a stretch. they also think, "oh, what the hell, its a buck."
capitilize on that mentality!! charge premium prices down here. just barely taking away the odds to draw is leaving gobs of money on the table.
but, always be wary of aggression when the draws complete. it often times means the goods...even if the bet is small. and always note them up as to who will bluff scare cards, and who will bet very small when they hit their draw, too.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Disco
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southend, England
Posts: 38
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I'd bet the pot..
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