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texa8

03-10-2009, 12:53 AM Post subject: AA huge multiway..

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Melbourne Australia

Posts: 207

MP2 is 56/0/1.5 but only over 9 hands.
CO is 43/14/4.6 over 56 hands.. both seem passive.

Ive never seen such preflop action before. this obviously damages the strength of our hand somewhat.. where do we stand here?

how do we approach the following streets??

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($15.10)
BB ($4.83)
Hero (UTG) ($7.09)
UTG+1 ($4.10)
MP1 ($4.59)
MP2 ($3.55)
CO ($5.21)
Button ($4.83)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, A

BB calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.27, UTG+1 calls $0.27, MP1 calls $0.27, MP2 calls $0.27, CO calls $0.22, 2 folds, BB calls $0.22

Flop: ($1.69) 10

, 4

, 5

(6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($6.19) 3

(3 players)
Hero bets $5.32 (All-In), MP1 calls $2.82 (All-In), CO calls $3.44 (All-In)

River: ($15.89) Q

(3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $15.89 | Rake: $1.05

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poker_pup

03-10-2009, 01:02 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 130

I'd bet the flop just a touch higher, maybe $1,75 or $2, to give the chasers bad odds to call. I'd check/call a small bet on the turn because it completed a straight. I'd also check the river and maybe fold depending on the size of the bet.

oskar

03-10-2009, 03:43 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

You should still have about 40% equity on the flop. I think it's fine as played, just don't expect to win the hand every time.
I think you have to get it in on this board with the stacks involved.

xpaand

03-10-2009, 03:58 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

I would've done the same. The really low straight draw is probably not much of a risk considering how many people called your PF raise. The flush draw would've made me nervous though.

OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".

texa8

03-10-2009, 05:02 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Melbourne Australia

Posts: 207

how do we get 40% equity? I'm not completely down with that..

dev

03-10-2009, 07:46 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by texa8

how do we get 40% equity? I'm not completely down with that..

40% given that there are so many hands in there that 2p and flush draws are likely together. It's not an either-or thing. If we're ahead, pretty much any card in the deck can beat us.

I'd over bet the pot on the flop, after that you're committed.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

oskar

03-10-2009, 08:18 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

No exact math... Pairs are 1/8 to make a set, 2pair are unlikely except for 45, and then you have an abundance of possible draws that leave you ~3:2 favourite.
If you want to you can just put some reasonably wide ranges in pokerstove and see how you're doing.

dev

03-10-2009, 08:25 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

We're not favored over 45.

Any reasonable range puts us ahead of any single opponent, but if we take them as a group we're beat a lot. I think 40% is a reasonable estimate, but that's including draws that we can price out.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

Muzzard

03-10-2009, 09:05 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

I think you played this fine. Villains should be raising here with better than AA, considering its like 7 way. Both are feesh. I don't think you can play this any different imo.

AFchung

03-10-2009, 12:04 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker_pup

bet sizing is fine up to pot. you dont accomplish anything by overbetting

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

texa8

03-10-2009, 12:20 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Melbourne Australia

Posts: 207

Thanks for the input guys..

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($15.10)
BB ($4.83)
Hero (UTG) ($7.09)
UTG+1 ($4.10)
MP1 ($4.59)
MP2 ($3.55)
CO ($5.21)
Button ($4.83)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, A

BB calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.27, UTG+1 calls $0.27, MP1 calls $0.27, MP2 calls $0.27, CO calls $0.22, 2 folds, BB calls $0.22

Flop: ($1.69) 10

, 4

, 5

(6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.50, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($6.19) 3

(3 players)
Hero bets $5.32 (All-In), MP1 calls $2.82 (All-In), CO calls $3.44 (All-In)

River: ($15.89) Q

(3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $15.89 | Rake: $1.05

Results:
Hero had A

, A

(one pair, Aces).
MP1 had A

, J

(high card, Ace).
CO had K

, 3

(one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero won $14.84

by the way... im not givng the name of MP1 for all the tea in china! straight to my 'fishies list' haha

ArcadianRock

03-10-2009, 07:21 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 295

Yeah, it was a draw heavy board with a slight chance of two pair/set but I would try and take it down on the flop or get the money in, don't want them to get correct odds to draw.

texa8

03-10-2009, 10:09 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Melbourne Australia

Posts: 207

CO is getting good odds on each street simply due to the fish calling between us.. you want to prevent this how? shove the flop into the other 47 people left to act? I think at the time I was b/f that flop. the fact that two played and only called indicated IMO I was in front so I shoved turn to give worst odds possible..

trippyhippie

03-10-2009, 11:44 PM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: elkhart, in

Posts: 20

I think you played it fairly well. I probably would have raised it more pf to somewhere about .40 or .45 and probably 2 on the flop to give improper odds to those drawing. Nice shove on the turn.

texa8

03-11-2009, 12:02 AM

#15 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Melbourne Australia

Posts: 207

Quote:

I probably would have raised it more pf to somewhere about .40 or .45

i think you're only saying that cause we see in hindsight that so many people called. we are first into the pot here raising that much is bad because:

* you fold out 95+% of hands, all of which we are ahead of
* we cant normally expect that many callers for 5xBB
* it would be inconsistent with my play. i.e if i raise 4xBB +1 for every limper for example for most hands but suddenly 8xBB with aces... that raise is the same size raise i would make if i was playing PP's, suited connectors, kings... etc

$2 on the flop is still going to be profitable for CO to call if fishieMP1 keeps calling... or if anybody calls.. but we dont know whos going to call on that flop.

i guess this biggest ambiguity in this line is the flop bet size..

trippyhippie

03-11-2009, 12:16 AM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: elkhart, in

Posts: 20

i see what you're saying. when i'm in a session, i usually switch gears during the session between tagg and lagg so it's harder for them to pick up reads. now it does seem that you are playing at a fairly loose table and i think a raise at about 8x would help limit the field. after all, you don't want to really have too many in the pot because there's a huge chance to get sucked out on my fish. but if i'm raising 8x with AA, I would also do that with everything else I'd raise UTG, which for me is very tight. but this all comes down to how aggressive you want to appear and how tight/loose you are/have been playing.

salsa4ever

03-11-2009, 12:45 AM

#17 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne

Posts: 1,073

i think this was played good.
you just can't expect to win every time, and next time when the 72o stacks you with 2 pair, you need to remember this hand. I think if you do this 10 times, you should be +++EV

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?

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